Victoria Clarke

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  0:01  
This is forward motion discussions about the important topic shaping Ontario's tourism industry. Here's your host, Andrew sigward.

Andrew Siegwart  0:11  
We're joined today by Victoria Clark, Director and CEO of visit, Mississauga. We cover many tourism related topics and discuss a lot about destination development, destination management and marketing, but it's her commitment to innovation and her unconventional thinking that really resonates. Enjoy. Well, hello Victoria. It is so great to see you. Thanks for joining us on our brand new forward motion podcast here at tile. And I want to start off by just saying congratulations on being named the 2024 tourism champion of the year. Well,

Victoria Clarke  0:43  
thanks so much, and thanks for inviting me to come on your new podcast. We know this is how people are consuming knowledge now, and I think it's a great move by Tayo. Let's kind

Andrew Siegwart  0:53  
of start from the beginning a little bit. Could you share with us a bit of your journey through tourism and what led you into your current role at visit Mississauga, I

Victoria Clarke  1:02  
started in tourism in 2015 there was an opportunity that came up to lead the DMO in st John, New Brunswick, and so it was a public private partnership between the city and the st John hotel Association. And I had come from philanthropy, where it really was an invitation to celebrate healthcare in the community, and this is an opportunity to sell and champion a community to the rest of the country. I embraced and got to join an absolutely incredible team. And then during the pandemic, a really interesting opportunity came up. I got a call from a head hunter that was looking for a tourism leader to start a new DMO in the city of Mississauga. It was only when I was fortunate enough to get a Board interview that I realized that the original board chair that I was hired under with Discover ST JOHN was actually on the board of visit Mississauga. Allison Frazier had gone from being the GM of the Hilton in st John, New Brunswick, to the Toronto Airport Hilton in Mississauga, and was kind enough to say my my name in a room of opportunity. The Job had not been on my radar at all. I was quite happy in st John, even if I was like everybody else splashing around and trying to keep my head above water during COVID. But I'll tell you, working in the tourism industry has been the greatest combination of leveraging the skills that I've gained in other parts of my career and also getting to learn and collaborate with incredible communities. I had an absolutely spectacular time in st John and I feel in Mississauga, we're just getting started,

Andrew Siegwart  2:38  
and it really is exciting to join an organization when it's new and there's so much momentum behind it and support. You mean, you obviously had the municipality support industry was around the table, so that must be really fun to get rolling at that starting point. No,

Victoria Clarke  2:55  
absolutely listen that this is a once in a career opportunity. I mean, if you look across the country at the work you're doing with tile and helping communities implement the Matt will mean that there'll be more stories like the story of visit Mississauga, but to have the opportunity in a leadership role, to get to form and lay a foundation for a destination is really exciting. And like I said, I got to join a team that is spectacular. People on our sales team had worked for one day and then we're sent home and COVID. So we started from zero, but you just don't get these opportunities in career, so you just have to snatch it up. So it's meant a big change for me from moving from the Maritimes, or being in the Maritimes for 30 years, and coming back to Ontario and then coming back to what is like such a dynamic. And probably, you know, as we go through this interview today, like the things that people don't see below the service in the community are the greatest triumphs of the work that my team and I are doing.

Andrew Siegwart  3:46  
It really is a deep pool. When you look at the areas that tourism touches, and particularly destination and marketing and management organizations, it's community development, it's economic development, and it's it's culture, and there's just so many layers. It's interesting, because your experience is vast. You've done work in tourism, you've done work in marketing, you've worked as a consultant, even through sort of checking you out on LinkedIn again, before our interview, I discovered that you were in broadcasting and actually led a morning show at some point. So you are really bringing that multi disciplinary approach, which I think is probably one of the new secret skills in our industry is having breadth. But I'm wondering if you could sort of share with us, you know, working in all those different fields, how do you think that's helped you be the best destination marketing leader you can be? Do

Victoria Clarke  4:35  
you know what? Thanks. I appreciate that question, particularly in a time, you know, when my kids are in school and they're talking about what they want to do next and building a career. Building a career and creating hyper focus and what they want to accomplish. My career has been really broad. Part of it is, you know, I was someone that stayed home with my kids not too long after I, you know, graduated from Dalhousie University, and then it was just opportunities that came up. So. I started my career in office management. I was raised by two entrepreneurs, and my parents, after I graduated from university, were like, wow, philosophy, good for you. Okay, what's your actual career gonna be? And they put me behind the desk and behind a desktop computer, and I will be aging myself, but I can handle it. We were bringing businesses on to computerized accounting. And so I was going in, and there would be an office administrator or a chief financial officer that was actually hesitant about working on a computer or moving from paper to on a computer, certainly not online. Online wasn't a thing yet, and I parlayed that into becoming a self taught coder. People will not believe that the honest to god I taught myself to do computer coding, which parlayed itself into working in year 2000 conversion, which is again, like you age yourself. But it was a time when we all thought that when the clock turned over to Jan one, that computers were going to stop working. At that point, we all had quite a reliance, certainly in the front office end of a lot of businesses. People weren't using it in marketing yet, but people were certainly using it in accounting and business management. And then in 2000 I had my first child and my awesome son, Jack. And so I was home, and I was home, I had my daughter 11 months later, Eva, she'd been to every one of her brother's birthday parties. And so I was home for 10 years, and I remember I've engaged in executive coaching over my career, and I really do encourage people to do that. But one of the things he said is, he said, You were stay at home, mom, but from what you're telling me, it sounds like you never stayed at home. And when I wasn't actually working, I was contributing to community through volunteering. One of those volunteer opportunities landed me in a radio station to promote an event we were putting on, and I got an offer to join The Morning Show team. And at the time, my sister was working for much music, and she said, Do you know people work their entire careers to get on the morning show? And you know, remember, it's a small town. She's in Toronto, and I'm in st John New Brunswick. But you know, you take opportunities where they come and and I guess that the long way of saying that you know, first of all, take opportunities, take chances, take risks that come up, take opportunities that come up. But there's no lost learnings. Even things that don't work out tend to leave you with a with a lesson of maybe what you don't want. And you can, you can start to narrow down your focus. I keep my focus as broad as I possibly can. Philanthropy came from digital marketing. I was encouraging people to start owning their real estate online. You know, whether that was, you know, owning your Facebook page or owning your URL, that's how far back we go. You know, owning Twitter or owning Victoria clark.ca or knowing that you can own.com and.ca and.org and that led into that, and radio led into philanthropy. I was doing a campaign to support the Red Cross when I met Tim Cameron, who was the CEO of the st John Regional Hospital Foundation. And he said, when you don't want to do this anymore, come and see me. And that opportunity allowed me to leverage the philanthropy and the volunteer work I'd been doing while I was home with the kids. You know, it was PR, it was gr, it was putting philanthropy online. And I got to really stretch my legs in so many different directions. And that came also from very generous leadership and philanthropy, again, led to tourism and to destination marketing, and you know, to have 10 years taken out of your career path because you choose to stay home. You know, shouldn't be limiting to women. Shouldn't be limiting to those folks that decide to do that. To me, volunteerism can help you kind of pick up the thread. And like I said, taking chances and capitalizing on opportunities should do that as well, but I couldn't be more grateful to have landed in destination marketing and destination development. It really does let me leverage all the skills that I've accumulated over the span of my lifetime, not just over the span of my working years, but also, I'm gonna say in there, I'm also the first person to say I don't know everything. I'm also the first person to say I don't have a sweet clue on how that works, but let's find out. And I think that's leadership. I think that's adulthood, and I think that's professionalism. And so I make a point of gathering a team around me that is smarter than me, that has a more depth of knowledge on what we're trying to do than I do. And then that allows me to be the risk taker, and that allows me to be the dreamer,

Andrew Siegwart  9:19  
for sure, for sure. And it's really getting that input from all corners. And I think from your story thus far, one of the best practices, I think, that you're communicating is if you're present in whatever you're doing, and you're seizing those opportunities, and you do a good job, those opportunities come back. So whether that's someone you worked with in one sector, recognizing you in the future and saying, Hey, let's call Victoria. She was really strong. So you never know where today's output is going to lead you. And I think sometimes we forget how important that is, and when you're present, you can do that. It's funny, you mentioned helping people move to the online world. So early in my career, I worked for Petro Canada in Western Canada and Alberta. And my job was to help licensees who owned and operated gas stations migrate from paper based accounting and inventory management to online. And so it was interesting for me going through that experience of coaching people how to do something very different than they had done for many years. And it was around that same time frame for me, but it was really foundational, because what I learned quickly was how destabilizing it can be for people, how resistance was there, and also how you had to learn how to overcome that very quickly. Let me tell you, like 25 year veterans in the late 90s of running a gas station, they were hard guys, pretty much. And so it was an interesting experience. So anyways, we have, we have that in common.

Victoria Clarke  10:42  
And my mom and dad dropped me, you know, fresh University graduate dropped me into a printing company, and they were printing Campbell Soup labels, like, talk old school, like, that's what they were doing. And I was like, Do you know that you can proof these on the computer? And do you know? And like, two people left because we were moving to computerization, and so those shifts have happened in our lifetime. We're we're on the cusp of another huge shift, but those shifts have happened in our lifetime, and they're continuing to happen in your ability to take on change, your ability not to withstand but to thrive through change, and to thrive through uncertainty. That's the biggest lesson that any of us have to, like, you need to let go of certainty and know that you can learn. But you know, that's been the biggest thing for me. And I've watched people, you know, fall off. They've fallen off because they can't change. They've fallen off because they need to have control.

Andrew Siegwart  11:34  
Yeah, I feel like, in the last few years in tourism, you know, we've been on a wild ride the whole the whole industry globally. And so I feel like, you know, now more than ever, we need to draw on that mindset. But of course, it's been a struggle, so we really have to dig deep. But you know, one of the things that you're doing with visit Mississauga, and in the market, you really are pushing past traditional tourism boundaries and sort of, you know, following on what we were just talking about. So when I think of some of the events that you've deployed, bringing the Jackalope festival to Mississauga, bringing SIPE, incredible artists, to do something very different in spaces that haven't been done before. I'm wondering what is enabling you to bring that type of innovation to the market, and how is it? How are your colleagues responding, and how are visitors responding?

Victoria Clarke  12:19  
There's a lot to unpack there. I'm going to start at the beginning, visit Mississauga and Discover ST JOHN two destinations, St John New Brunswick, not St John's Newfoundland. St John New Brunswick and Mississauga. And I'm saying that because there's a huge brand out in the marketplace, which is St John's Newfoundland. Like Newfoundland is a huge brand and Toronto is a global brand. And so to come in on these destinations that really are Goliath to our David, you have to come in with a different strategy. And then the other thing for visit Mississauga and for the city of Mississauga is that we're in a in a unique position, that we're a big city with a load almost no visibility and a lot of assumptions on what we have for offerings, bedroom community, really kind of part of Toronto. What could possibly be there? It's residential. And then also, we were building a company in COVID and coming out of COVID, and we couldn't wait for the market to come to us. We couldn't hope that we would get organically grown recognition. So I've been incredibly well supported to consider things like in st John, you know, we built a shipping container village. And before that was, before that was chic, back in 2016 we built a shipping container village down on Long Wharf and built an event that was about the occasion of New Brunswick Day, which, again, wouldn't resonate anywhere outside of New Brunswick, leaning right into who our community is. And then the same thing in Mississauga. Mississauga, you know, we went out to the community. You cannot assume what the community thinks about itself or what the community thinks about the industry. And so

Andrew Siegwart  13:51  
it's dangerous too, isn't it? The most intimidating

Victoria Clarke  13:55  
thing about taking on the job with Mississauga was the last 30 years in New Brunswick, and New Brunswick is a beautiful province. The standard living is incredible, and the population density is low and the population is rather homogeneous. To come to an incredibly densely populated and incredibly multicultural city and thinking that I know what the city says about itself, and thinking that I know what the city would want to say about itself, you know, somebody asked me, actually, at the Ontario tourism Summit, on one of the panels, what keeps me up at night, and that was one of the things when I was starting, was that what was keeping me up at night is that I was going to have to drop every assumption, and that I myself, was going to have to become the biggest student to what the city wanted to say about itself and understood about itself, and then also to inspire it to go beyond that. So when we consider events like APIC which is coming up, which is our snowboarding, head to head, snowboarding, snow skiing, snow skating, action sport event, first. Of three years, Jack lope, we held our first of three years this past summer, multi sport Action event seven different you know, we're going from vert skateboarding to street skateboarding to motocross bouldering and the first legal base jumping in Ontario, and then to safe inviting a world renowned large scale, hyper realism artist who had painted last summer in Paris before the Olympics. So he was in front of the louver. He painted in Egypt in front of the pyramids, and then he came and painted in community common Park in Mississauga. And what I'm going to say is this is guerilla marketing, disguised as action sports and disguised as public art, and these are stunts to get our brand offering and our message up and out of our community and out onto regional and national and international realm, and cut through that noise like we are in such a hyper competitive marketplace. If we're in the same marketplace as Paris, we're in the same marketplace, you can assume we're in the same marketplace as Toronto and Ottawa, but we're in the same marketplace as Vancouver and Montreal. We're in the same marketplace as Boston and as Costa Rica. And in order to cut through the noise, you need to be bold. I've been supported and encouraged to take risks and to be bold. And not every destination, and not every destination leader has that opportunity and that privilege, and I understand that it's an opportunity and a privilege. And one of the reasons that I got the call from the city of Mississauga is that I had demonstrated that in st John and thank goodness for me and for my career, that the risks and the gambles that we had taken with that and with some other projects that we had done paid off, and we're seeing them pay off in Mississauga. And so what role do those things play? Those are brand building. Those are the stars you hook your messaging to. Yesterday we announced that Mississauga will be hosting the 2026, Scotty tournaments of hearts. Hard, hard work by our team, local organizing committee. They've been working on the bid for two and a half years. And so it's the first time it's being played in the GTA. And these are the things that will put eyes on our destination. It'll be, what did they see is 70 hours on TSN. And, you know, events like this, and events like I said that are, you know, grill marketing disguised as action sports and public art. These are as much part of our marketing plan as attracting business events and sporting events and developing and sharing out leisure marketing. They are what get people talking about and considering your destination.

Andrew Siegwart  17:32  
Yeah, it's It's Buzz, it's unexpected. You're sort of disrupting the expectations of Mississauga. I mean, when I first looked at the APIC event and I started, I was like, wow, it's kind of interesting to me that other markets haven't done something like that, that might have even more infrastructure, but I think that you're bringing this sort of disruptor mindset, which is smart. There's

something else I want to probe with you on what you're doing. And I think this is something that's really important to other destinations, whether you're here in Ontario or other or other parts of Canada, but you're looking at competing globally. And I think sometimes we when we think of competition, we think of the downtown area 50 kilometers or 20 kilometers away, and you're bringing a bit of a global perspective. Do you see that starting to bring interest from visitors from abroad?

Victoria Clarke  18:28  
So thanks for that question. I think that the runway, to be honest, is has been too short, but it's made for a message and for a story that I can start the conversation. So when we think about Jackalope, one of the ideas that came out of working with tribu is that we wanted to actually leverage the fact that we have a young, modern, multicultural community. You know, what is good for the event is good for residents. And so I was trying to validate that. And so what we did is we partnered with tribu, and we handed out five golden tickets, so all expense paid for an athlete and whoever is their support, whether it's their coach or their parent, considering that some of them were nine years old, it was certainly coach and parent to come and participate in Jackalope, and so we were doing that. So because I can't afford to promote Mississauga in Japan like standalone, I can't afford to promote Mississauga to Australia stand alone. That doesn't even make sense, but to me, to actually create, you know, evangelists and champions of our destination in those places. You know, visiting friends and relatives is a huge market for us, from South Asia and again, you know, we would ladder up with Ontario and ladder up with Canada in their marketing strategies to get us into those markets. But I think that for Mississauga that the runway, I can't honestly say that that so far we've seen that we certainly had people come, but I don't not going to say that it's from the marketing that we've done thus far. But remember, Andrew, we benefit from the fact that the largest airport with the broadest and largest lift in the country is. In our backyard, Pearson is literally in I joke and say, you know, the Mississauga Pearson Airport or the Hazel McCallion Memorial Mississauga airport, but I say that because, you know, our city spans from Pearson Airport down to Lake Ontario. But yeah, I think it's early days, but I really look forward to being able to measure that and to also be honest about what our marketing has attracted, as opposed to our proximity to Toronto and our proximity to the airport,

Andrew Siegwart  20:25  
my prediction is you're going to see as those metrics roll out the impact. And I think it's also a really important point to note this guerrilla marketing, this experiential marketing, working with visiting friends and relatives and influencers. They do take time, and they take a lot of focus and commitment to roll them through, but they work, and so it's really exciting to see. I think it's been actually really important for us to talk about Mississauga, really, to educate our listeners and the industry in general. I'm wondering, just thinking purely from a consumer perspective, are there any like hidden gems that you think people would love to hear from you? On from Mississauga, like, is there one or two hidden gems you could point out that maybe people aren't thinking about but should

Victoria Clarke  21:05  
No absolutely. Do you know what we so again, there were projects that we could start in COVID. Do you know that? Again, destination marketing, destination sales is that we're generally trying to attract business four to six years out, sometimes longer. And so when we couldn't be selling we were digging down into what the value prop of our destination is. So when we start talking about hidden gems in Mississauga, what I start thinking about is that we are the front door to Canada for the rest of the world. What that also means is that this is the way that people have entered Canada. So we have about 126 countries represented throughout our restaurants and the food scene and marketing in Mississauga. So we partnered, and we've created many partnerships. We're going to highlight one. We partnered with Suresh Dawson. You know, I would consider Suresh to be the Anthony Bourdain of the GTA, very well known personality on and contributor to CBC Radio, and we partnered with him to talk about unlikely destinations for extraordinary culinary experiences. Cotra Holdings Plaza is on cottre Road in Mississauga, and it is a completely nondescript set of strip malls housed and nestled into this plaza are some of the best smoked meat you've ever had. It's halal. The best roasted nuts and coffee from around the world in a very little roastery, a very tiny roastery, the best cabbage rolls that you would say that you have eaten them right from Poland, and they are only available on Wednesdays, and they always sell out. Also a weekend market that happens in Mississauga, that, again, it's food from all over the world. If you want to feel like you've stepped into Japan, our sister city is Korea, Korea, Japan, and we have Korea Park. And in May, you can walk through the cherry blossoms, and you can either think that you're in Japan or that you're in Washington, DC. And then things like, you know, our events APIC and Jack lobe, we're having cpkc and Scotties come up, and then just products that we like talk to our business event travelers, places like break free and square one, that either mean that you can create a great off site for your clients, or we can partner with you and create an incredible food experience off site for You. So those are some of the hidden gems. But, I mean, we could have a whole podcast, as I'm sure most destinations could. I just thought I would focus on food, because, again, you could have a taste of the world or a taste of home, and those are the things that I'm proud of. And then this year we, sorry, 2024 we got a Michelin mention and a Michelin bib Gourmand, which, you know, blowing the mind to our community. Yes, we advocated on behalf of our region, along with destination Toronto to have Michelin expand their purview, and we were thrilled to know that Guru lash me, which is a dosa restaurant, got a bit Gourmand, and Tamron, modern Indian bistro which is in the heart of the city, which is beautiful. Indian food, very theatrical, got Michelin mentioned, and so I think that's just the beginning, and I look forward to again, telling a really diverse and incredible depth of experience that culinary wise, in Mississauga.

Andrew Siegwart  24:16  
Yeah, it's certainly, we're certainly seeing in all of the trends and then the spend profiles like that, food is so critically important to a destination, and the more robust the offering, the more attractive the destination. And yeah, I'm gonna check out that. What did you call it again? COVID,

Victoria Clarke  24:31  
COVID Holdings Plaza. When we posted that video, the video for COVID Holdings has about 180,000 views online. The Flea Market with Suresh has about 250,000 views on YouTube. And COVID Holdings, we had the number of messages that we had from people that said and like this is the average message was, I've driven by COVID Holdings Plaza for the last 25 years, and I have never once had cause to turn in that now will become a regular destination. For us and the stories and that, I welcome people to go and take a look at our YouTube channel and look for it's called the next time you're here. And the reason it's called Next time you're here is because, Andrew, we assume you've already been here, you know you've been here, whether you've been through the airport or driven through the next time you're here. We want you to stop and check that out.

Andrew Siegwart  25:16  
And I think you're also highlighting a really good message, and that is, let's not forget that there's an opportunity for discovery with people who live in our communities. And when you have those gems, sometimes people just they miss them, right? So there's such an opportunity to market close to home. One of the things that I've really appreciated about your work, Victoria is your is your broader perspective. And you you do a lot of work. You volunteer for some national tourism organizations, international tourism organizations. And I'm just wondering if you could share with us, sort of how those experiences shape what you do every day.

Victoria Clarke  25:50  
But listen, I appreciate that question, Andrew. And you know in life, I apply this broadly across my life. You get out what you put in. And to me, I was looking for colleagues. I was looking for support and inspiration. And when I joined discover st John, I was looking for other peers in this space. And at that time, I joined destination Marketing Association of Canada, which has since evolved into the Canadian destination Leadership Camp full committee. And this is about being able to learn from your peers. And I've since joined the tyac board recently, just in late 2024 and am heavily involved in destinations International, on their foundation and on their board for the certified destination management executive. I've graduated from that designation. I have that designation. I'm also an instructor in that designation, and sit on that board and Mark people's final papers. And to me, the reason that I volunteered is is, first of all, I think you have an obligation. If you're in a leadership role in any industry, I think you have an obligation. You sit in a privileged seat. You sit in a seat that has a lot of perspective. And again, like, I think you have an obligation to give back, but honestly, you get back what you put in. And I have built collegial relationships. I have had the opportunity to learn from the best in the business, not only across Canada, but around the world. And also, I've had an opportunity to either have things that I was, you know, concerned or interested in, be validated, be dispelled. You know, one of the greatest experiences that I ever had was, you know, my first meeting with destination marketing association of Camden. These are my peers that are in leadership roles running DMOS across the country, and to know that the challenges that I had weren't unique to st John, I mean, weren't unique to me sitting in my seat. They were challenges that were happening across the country. And when that happens, you actually get to move forward. You get to find out, you know, what that's happened to us, or we are certainly having that challenge, or we've used that tool, or we don't recommend that tool or that service. And sometimes it can be shorthand to success. It can also be cutting the distance between you learning a very long and hard lesson. Yeah, for sure. And again, like I said, that's just, that's life. That's not even just destination marketing, but I'd love to see what's happening across the country and across the world. I love sharing best practices. I love learning. I love sharing. I think it enhances my career. I think it enhances my personal experience. And then the positive offshoot of that is that it enhances the experience of my staff, and thus the experience of our visitor. Everywhere we go, I continue to be inspired. It gives me the opportunity to encourage people to travel as I learn more about other destinations and what they're doing to promote and do you know what? And sometimes, and it happened with me in St John is that I was sitting next to Charles Harris, who, at the time was the Chief Marketing Officer for visit Anaheim, so in the shadow of the mouse, and he was talking about some things that they were doing for resident engagement, and some things that they were doing that were pretty dynamic and to be able to stand the work that my team in Saint John New Brunswick was doing. Our budget was 1.2 million. I think that that was probably the salary of his CEO, and to show what we had been doing next to that was so validating, so inspiring, I couldn't wait to get back to my team and to my board members and to our city leadership to share how we stood up and leveled up versus some of the biggest and best funded destinations across the world, or, you know, around the country or across the world.

Andrew Siegwart  29:31  
Yeah, it reinforces that, doesn't it? Yeah, it absolutely does. It absolutely does with this sort of global perspective and sort of learnings that you have, are there any like hot trends in the destination space that you're thinking about right now, that that really Canadian destinations or Ontario destinations should be thinking about

Victoria Clarke  29:50  
hot trends? No, I don't. I Buck trends. I look for, I purposely Buck all trends. But no, if we're talking about. But things I see in the marketplace that we need to, actually, you know, take note of and react to, as opposed to, necessarily, to follow, is nationally. I mean, right now the IMPACT Conference is happening in Victoria, BC, and talking about sustainable tourism. And, you know, I have privilege of of sitting next to global destination leaders when I participate in destinations International and the sustainability of tourism. And that's not just saying, you know, let's move away from plastic straws. This is talking about, you know, how we get where we are, who we want in our destinations, if we're attracting the right client, and then how we make sure that the halo effect, that we know, the positive halo effect of travel and tourism, how we share that with as many people in our home communities as we possibly can. And, you know, learning best practices that we see come out of Sweden, learning best practices that we see coming out of Thailand or coming out of the United States, or, you know, cautionary tales that are coming out of both places and how to best avoid, or how to best emulate ways that people have mitigated some of their challenges. I

Andrew Siegwart  31:04  
think you're right, that that whole approach on being as close to the local community and having that aligned perspective on growth and management, you're right. It's a big one, and it's complex and probably unique to every destination too, in terms of how they approach it. You know, it's interesting, because we know that the sustainability, both economic, social as well as environmental, are priorities, and we hear it from the industry. But I think we're also looking at a political climate globally and nationally, where, you know, there are some questions about how we continue to push on the environmental measures, to continue to support diversity, equity and inclusion. You know, there's a bit of down. A bit of downward pressure there. What's your advice to folks who might be feeling that and not sure how to continue to push forward on these initiatives?

Victoria Clarke  31:50  
Well, for us, following best practices that we see, they're from fellow communities across our country, across North America or across the world. I know that for me, I have a unique setup that we are actually part of the municipality of the city of Mississauga, and as such, being one of the most culturally diverse cities in the country. And you know what I would even argue in the world? You know, we need to create opportunities for people not only to benefit from tourism, but to be included and participate as their jobs and tourism and Mississauga works very hard to create an inclusive environment, but you and I know you need to see it, to be it, and so we need to be so deliberate about making sure that we're including people in the economy, so that we see the return. These can't just be things we say, and these can't just be banners we fly. These need to be things that we dig right into and demand results of ourselves.

Andrew Siegwart  32:42  
I see it as a real opportunity for Ontarians values to continue to be sharpened, and I think it's going to help us stand out globally in everything that we do. And I think, you know, organizations like visit Mississauga tayo and others, I think our role is to help the industry and play that supportive role. And I see that as a big, big opportunity for us to focus going forward. You know, we covered a lot of ground, and I want to thank you for, you know, sharing so much. But I want to, I want to come back to one sort of final question for you. There are going to be a lot of people who are listening, who are emerging leaders, they haven't, maybe they're looking to, one day be in your position. I'm wondering if you could just share some advice for people, particularly youth, who are looking to build their career in this visitor economy. What advice would you give them so that they can have the right impacts on their communities and the industry in their future careers?

Victoria Clarke  33:35  
Well, thank you for that. Well, number one, and you and I talked about this in the meeting before the meeting, it's being genuine. You know, we're we're in a world that tells you fake it till you make it. Just don't you know, it can be hard to be genuine. It can make you a second guess yourself, but be vulnerable. Say you don't know. Say you want to learn. Be open. And the way you do that to me, I really do say that you know you you get out of life what you put into it, put volunteering into it. You know, that's going to find your people. And so that's going to find your people. You know, if we're talking on a on a professional scale, you're going to find your people, and you're going to find your solutions, and you're going to find those ways to bolster yourself, or bolster your career or your organization, and it's going to happen your personal life as well. You're going to find your people if you volunteer, you're going to find your opportunities and your endorsements when you volunteer, because people are going to see what you can contribute, not what's in it for them and what's in it for you, but what you can contribute. And then just the last part is dream, big dream, big, hairy, risky dreams, you know, on your path to trying to land the big ideas and the big aspirations for yourself, you're going to find a lot of satisfaction. You know, I'm not just talking about scaling Everest or, you know, landing that Grammy or that Oscar, if those are your aspirations, or, you know, winning a title award, but set your dreams big in that purview, they're going to be things that you accomplished a lot. Along the way that are going to drive you to your next outcome. But I'm always going to land back on being genuine and being true to yourself. That is your true north star, your magnetic north and, yeah, those are the things that are going to lead you through your community. And, you know, ask for help when you need it. To me, one of the most valuable things that I have gathered and over my career is a set of colleagues that, to me, are my mentors. They're my touchstones. They're the people that challenge you and they're the people that encourage you. So you know, be prepared to be wrong, be prepared to reset your opinion, but do it within the safety and the challenge of building a great collegial bunch of friends and mentors around yourself. We're in an industry where people love to share, and we're in an industry of people, people and leverage that, leverage that, that is the greatest gift of my life, of colleagues that become friends and mentors and people that I have you know that I have idolized and that I want to admire and want to emulate, become friends and teachers and people that prod you forward. You're going to have times in your career where you might feel stalled out. You may have times in your personal life where you know it may impact performance and your trusted colleagues that become friends are those people that shore you up. But again, that all comes from being genuine.

Andrew Siegwart  36:17  
It's such great advice, and you know, I can tell you, on behalf of the tayo team and our members, you know, we have felt that benefit from your collaboration with tayo over the years, whether it's collaborating on an event, helping us make OTS in in Mississauga, so memorable, so many different things. So you give that forward as well, and you give us advice along the way, and we really do appreciate it. And so I think that's sage advice. And one note I'm going to do a call back to which I think is also something really important for you that you've shared, is, for those listening, don't follow trends, but Buck them. And I think that's, that's the liner note for the episode. So thank you so much, Victoria, and I look forward to collaborating with you in the year to come. Oh,

Victoria Clarke  37:00  
thanks, Andrew, thanks for the invite, and you honor me by even inviting you to share my opinion. So thank you so much. Thanks for

Mary Anne Ivison (Voiceover)  37:07  
listening to forward motion. This show is created by the tourism industry association of Ontario and is recognized by government as the voice of tourism and produced by everyone at the sound off media company. You.