Jenn Smela: Connecting and Supporting School Counselors

Matt Cundill  0:01  
This is from plains to peaks counselors speak a podcast from the Colorado School Counselor Association.

Anna Gisetti  0:09  
I'm your host. Ana gazzi, middle school counselor extraordinaire and current assistant Chair of the Colorado School Counselor Association. The purpose of from plains to peaks is to provide a space for all things school counselor, our hope is to make connections with folks around our state and beyond, provide some education, provoke some thought, engage in meaningful conversations from our point of view, and to bring some levity to our ever challenging yet very rewarding work in education. You guys, today's main feature includes one of my favorite humans, one of the nicest people on the planet, Jen smella, Colorado School Counselor, association chair. Hi, Jen. Thanks so much for being here today.

Jenn Smela  0:53  
Hi. I'm so glad to be here. How fun is this?

Anna Gisetti  0:56  
This is amazing. I'm so glad that we are getting this up and running and off the ground right?

Jenn Smela  1:02  
Absolutely, it's going to be amazing. I hope

Anna Gisetti  1:06  
so. I know. So, I know. So, okay, so Jen, my first big question for you is, how are you and what have you been up to?

Jenn Smela  1:15  
Oh my gosh, I am doing I'm doing well. This morning, I had a little bit of a slower morning, and I finished a book that I have been wanting to finish for several weeks, and so I just gave myself a few hours to finish a book this morning. And so I'm doing really good. It felt good to have a slow, relaxed morning today.

Anna Gisetti  1:37  
I love that. Can I ask what book? Oh yeah,

Jenn Smela  1:41  
it was, it's called ghosted, an American story by a woman named Nancy French, and she just is a person that I follow on social media and an author, and just a comment commentator. She's amazing. So it was a great book. That's her memoir.

Anna Gisetti  1:57  
Oh, I love that, and I love that you got to spend some time doing for you this morning, and finishing that up, huzzah. I know I like to bring some of that humanity, like what you do today. And my morning, I spent shopping with my mom, which was really nice. We ran some errands, and then we had a pie to drop off to some friends of ours who live in a senior living facility, and we ended up staying with them for like, an hour and having lunch with them. And it was amazing. So that was really it was unexpected and really nice. Did

Jenn Smela  2:28  
you make the pie?

Anna Gisetti  2:30  
No, like, that's a tall order. No, although my church did have a pie auction, we do a pie auction every year, and so loads of people bring pies, and then we do this really fun auction and auction them off. And for that, I made a Keto apple crisp, which I have never made before. Don't even know how it tasted, but I was like, I shall bake this and bring it so that other people can try it for the first time and see how that goes. How'd it turn out? They looked pretty but I didn't like, take a spoon and sample it. I was like, that would look a little odd. I'm sure it's delicious. Please pay for my like, partially eaten keto apple crisp, although I think my sister did end up getting one because I made two. And originally I made one to bake and give away at the pie auction. And the other one, I was like, Oh, I'll have it so I can taste it, like I made a whole big thing, so I can taste it before I go. And then it just got so late in the evening that I was like, I shall just, I don't even want to try this right now. I'll just bring two to church. So I did. And so I, yeah, sold them without tasting them. But since my sister did end up getting one, she'll bring it to the holiday and we'll try it. Then

Jenn Smela  3:42  
I bet you have to let me know.

Anna Gisetti  3:46  
I will. Yeah, I'm like, ooh, crisps, fruit crisps from here on out, all right, but we didn't come here to talk about that. My my pie auction and crisps. We came here to talk about you, Jen, and again, I'm so delighted to have you here today to share with us about who you are and what you do and some of your passions and being connected in the field of school counseling. So to begin with, as we dive into you, share with us a little bit about yourself, like, Who are you, where are you from, what do you do? How'd you get into education? I know that's like four questions in one, but yeah, just give us a little, a little idea, a little story about about Jen. So,

Jenn Smela  4:28  
I am a Colorado native, a very proud Colorado native. I feel like there's farther and few of us that you come across these days, but I was born and raised in Aurora. Very, very proud that Aurora is my hometown. My grandma actually moved to Aurora, and my mom was born there as well. But when it was the 1000 people strong roots definitely in that area. And yeah, I graduated from high school in Aurora. A long time ago I made my way up to. Out of state in Fort Collins, which was probably the last place I wanted to go for college and grad school, probably because that was the place that my mom and dad wanted me to go, and I didn't want to have any of that. I had wanted to go to college out in California and wanted to be near the ocean and the beach, but that just didn't work out. Both of my parents are teachers. My mom was a first grade teacher for almost 30 years, and then my dad was a middle school industrial arts teacher for almost 30 years. So I feel like education is kind of all I've ever known, just having both of my parents being in the field of education and having extended family members be teachers, and had a grandfather who was in administration, and so it's kind of like a legacy, kind of in our family, and that's kind of just what I grew up knowing. So I didn't want to be in education because of all of that, and I saw how burned out. My parents were towards the end of their careers, and I thought, Oh no, I don't think I'm going to do that. So I came up to CSU, majored in Human Development and Family Studies, and I wanted to work with really at risk kids, and so at the end of my undergrad, I had an internship that turned into a job at a residential treatment center, and I worked there for a couple of years in different capacities, and I feel like I just fell in love with working with teenagers. I always kind of knew that I wanted to work with people in some sort of capacity, but I really just loved working with with teens, and I just thought I was going to save the world. You know, I feel like everything I learned about working with kids, I learned at that job in residential treatment, and then I slowly realized that, gosh, I need a graduate degree because I really just financially, it was hard to find a job that paid well to make ends meet without having to work a second and a third job. Even today, educators still work. I still work two and three jobs. Even back then, it was just a lot to be able to support myself, so I decided to go back to graduate school, and because I loved working around kids, and it kind of volunteered in my youth group at church, and kind of worked with kids all throughout college that I thought, wow, I guess schools kind of would be the best place to get to work with all different kinds of kids. I decided I didn't really want to be in the classroom. I don't feel like I have the organizational skills to kind of run a routine in a classroom, but I did feel like I could make a difference and make an impact by being a school counselor, and so I went back to grad school at CSU, and that's what I did, and here I am, like 2728 years later, almost. So it's been crazy.

Anna Gisetti  7:55  
That is incredible. And just want to say, I appreciate you sharing your story. I don't know that we always get to know each other on that human level. I think sometimes, even when we're around each other professionally, like we get to know a little bit about each other and each other's lives, but just to know our histories and where we came from and how we either landed or fell into this career is always fascinating to me, 28 years congratulations, by the way, because that is amazing. I also noted you work a couple few other jobs, as well as many of us educators do currently. What level are you counseling right now? I am

Jenn Smela  8:38  
at the middle school level. After 25 years as a high school counselor, I was feeling a little bit kind of like I was on the path to burnout. Just felt like I could kind of ride out the twilight of my career and be fine. But I just never wanted to just be fine. I wanted to really love what I was doing and feel like I could have a new challenge, and felt like I could be invigorated going to work, so I decided that I needed to make a change, so I moved to middle school last school year. So yeah, it's awesome and amazing, and I love Middle School. I didn't think I would like it as much as I do, and I just love it

Anna Gisetti  9:16  
Same, same. I also started at the high school level and transition to middle school about four or five years into my career. And, yeah, it's funny, like it it's a different animal, a whole different world out there, and does take some special people. But I feel like, yeah, I love, I just love that you transition, because I think it's a great fit. How long and in what roles have you been a part of the Colorado School Counselor

Jenn Smela  9:45  
Association? This is really funny, because I remember when I graduated from CSU back in the summer of 98 and I had started my my first job as a counselor, high school counselor at Tom. Valley High School in Loveland, I remember seeing some sort of flyer that had gotten mailed to me about this CSCA conference, and I hadn't even heard of it even when I was in grad school. I'm embarrassed to say that, and I just think it was just so long ago that, you know, I just feel like we were kind of getting our footing as an organization. And I think we just, you know, we've just grown so much in the lifespan of my career. But I got that flyer, and then I went to my colleague and supervisor at my school at the time and said, Can should we think about this conference? And so I think it was that first or second year that I went, and I don't even remember where the conference was actually, but it was before, like, the Embassy Suites even existed in Loveland. So I'm sure it was in, like, Colorado Springs somewhere, or Denver somewhere. So that was I would go to conferences, you know, over the years, and kind of get some really good PD, but that was kind of my, the extent of my involvement, and I'd had friends, kind of, that were on the board over the years. And then I can't remember if it was 2009 or 2010 I think it was 2010 Dr, Lori Carlson, who's one of my dear friends to this day is a school counseling professor at CSU, and she'd actually taken over the school counseling program after I had graduated from Dr Daley, and he he was wonderful, and Lori came in and kind of just took the program and has been there. She's retiring this year, actually, but she had nominated me for School Counselor of the Year that year in 2010 and so it was really, it was kind of crazy, because I ended up winning the high school level, and then kind of went on the conference was in Vail that year. And so I had had colleagues over the time, you know, kind of be involved in CSCA. Sam Haviland, Dr Sam Haviland, who in administration, now in Denver Public Schools, was kind of involved in CSCA before, and so she was kind of my connection to it. And then I won that award. And Matthew had talked to me over the years about trying to get involved with CSEA, and I just I resisted. I was a young mom and had kids and kind of overwhelmed, and so I kind of held off on getting involved, probably longer than I should have, and then I joined. I gosh, I feel like it was like 2017 maybe, and I was high school VP, they had an opening, and they had to appoint me because somebody had to leave the board. So I started as high school VP, and did that, you know, for, I don't know, maybe a term or two. And then that was when we had region reps. And so then kind of decided to run for president elect and kind of be a part of the president team. And I never, like I always loved the aspect of leadership of CSCA, because it was a team of people working together. And it wasn't ever just one person that kind of was doing everything. It was really a cool team of people. So I think it was ever since 2017 and then I my involvements kind of evolved, and now I'm kind of in the twilight of my board of director year, and it's been amazing as we had transitioned from the region reps to kind of the structure that we have now, and sit on a few different committees. So it's, you know, I feel like it's been kind of a lot over the last, I don't know, probably seven or eight years. Holy

Anna Gisetti  13:40  
moly. What a journey. And congratulations on all your accomplishments, like the awards happen over the years and sometimes earlier in our careers, those recognitions and acknowledgements of the service that we provide, and you've just been a stellar contributor to the field all these years and continue to be still working in now counselor education. So I just want to commend you for that, for the work that you've done, for the contributions you've made to the field. And you mentioned Matthew and so I just wanted to shout out Matthew McLean, Executive Director of the CSCA board, because he is also the reason that I am sitting in this seat today and have this connection and friendship with you so great people, and so I just love that. Thank you. Heck, yeah. What would you say is your favorite part? And maybe you alluded to this in your answer a little bit, but what would you say is your favorite part about being involved in CSCA,

Jenn Smela  14:42  
I feel like in the beginning, my favorite my answer would have been just seeing counseling on a larger scale and being able to be a part of leadership of that in Colorado. And I still love that. But I think my favorite part continues to be now. You. The relationships that I have with fabulous, amazing people and counselors whom I respect and learn from every day. And I feel like my work is kind of an extension of everybody else that I just kind of glean from, and, like, get really good ideas from. And so it's just having a network that feels like a family, just seeing the changes and the impact that amazing humans are making across the state of Colorado. So it's not only personally, just having amazing friendships, but professionally, just being able to have access to amazing work and support that's being done. So it's just kind of rounded out. I feel like a long career, that sometimes when you're in schools, you really, sometimes get so inward, focused on just what's happening in your schools. And CSCA just helps me really look outward, not only just in our state, but also on a national level, and really be able to be like, Oh my gosh, I believe in these people, and I believe in the work that they're doing and we're all doing, yeah, I think it's just being inspired by the work I see done every day by people across the state,

Anna Gisetti  16:07  
huzzah, and I totally have to echo that. I feel like a bunch of us in this field are connectors and yearn for that connection on the variety of levels, and whether it's at conferences or board meetings or whatever kind of gatherings we get, it is just amazing to be able to network and collaborate and hear what other people are doing and learn from them. We are good

Jenn Smela  16:32  
people in this organization,

Matt Cundill  16:41  
from planes to peaks, counselor speak continues,

Anna Gisetti  16:45  
talking about hard things, what would you say has been a challenge for you in the realm of school counseling, and how do you or how have you overcome it or them? Because I know sometimes there are lots of challenges, but pick one, I mean,

Jenn Smela  17:01  
at on the surface level right now, I think just the changing tide of how education is being done in Colorado, I think is a big challenge, and just trying to, sometimes trying to keep up with things, keep up with the needs of kids, and keep up with how to hold all of it and how to balance and juggle all of it with changing expectations. And I feel like kids continue to be the same, and they need adults who believe in them, that know that they believe in them. That's what hasn't changed. I think the biggest challenge now is, how do you how do you do it all? And I feel like imposter syndrome is so very real, even with people starting out, but also with people that have been doing this, like me for a really long time, kind of like, Oh my gosh. Am I really capable of doing all the things that that kids need, and can I really be that play that part and play that role in my school and in my district, in my in my state? So I think it's just kind of like not letting those voices get inside my head, thinking that my work doesn't matter, because kids matter, and so therefore my work has to matter. So it's it's taking space and taking time and surrounding myself with really good people.

Anna Gisetti  18:23  
See, this is why your chair right now? Because that's phenomenal. I love it. What would you say is your favorite part? And I know there are many, but maybe, maybe there's, like, a top three favorite part about school, counseling. I

Jenn Smela  18:40  
so believe in public education, and so my heart will always be there, and my favorite thing is just being able to support kids, no matter who they are, that come through our doors, because they deserve a chance at education, and they deserve access to education, and so being able to help provide some of those building blocks and foundational supports that kids need just to thrive and become who they were meant and created to be and to be a part of that is my absolute favorite thing. I think for me, it just boils down to the simple things of just being able to be positive and say hi to all different kids all day long, and maybe to be the one person that says their name to them that I am so glad you're here today. You know, just, I think that's my favorite thing, is having the kids walk by me in the hallway, stop by in my office during passing period to to get a fidget or to just say hi, that is my absolute favorite thing.

Anna Gisetti  19:44  
Oh, chills. Jen, I've got chills. And my heart was just, I'm going up for you too. My heart is so filled like especially when you think about a 12 year old, like a 12 year old boy, right, or a 13 year old boy, you. Who I don't know, it's really hard to get them to give the time of day to many things outside of like sports or gaming. And so then when, when they find a way to connect with you on that human level or seek you out to tell you something, there's nothing like it. It is magic. There's nothing like it. You did mention your couple other jobs. Now I'm thinking back like, did she say she was a counselor educator? I don't know if you did. Did you No,

Jenn Smela  20:29  
I didn't, but I am doing that right now. I am teaching the school counseling classes at Colorado State until they hire somebody a permanent faculty position. I'm, I'm stepping in and trying to follow in Dr Carlson's footsteps, because she's phenomenal and amazing, but I'm doing that until they find, you know, somebody to take on her faculty role, because she's retiring. And I love it. I love working with grad students, and they are, I mean, they're so insightful and talented and like, just can, kind of, they just see possibilities. Just being able to help support people, kind of at the beginning of their careers has been, kind of almost helped me, like, find the passion for mine again to also moving to middle school, but being able to talk about like, just helping them get started, it's just so fun. It's so amazing to see people that just want to do good in the world and be able to support them as they take the next steps in doing that. So

Anna Gisetti  21:36  
that being said, you have this passion for working with students youth, you have this passion for working with people who are looking at entering into this field. What advice I guess, would you give folks who are just joining or just about to join the field of school? Counseling,

Jenn Smela  21:56  
I would say, to definitely approach with as much groundedness as you can. I know that when I started, I was going to just change the world, and it was just going to be great. And then my first year as a school counselor, I lost a student who had been killed by another student at our school. And then Columbine happened in the spring. And so like knowing that there are real life tragedies that happen, that I have to be as equipped as I can and grounded as I can, as a as a human, and to know what my purpose is, and to know kind of what my reason is for being a school counselor, I would say that kind of unfolds, I think, as you get further into your career, but going into it in the beginning, really having clarity about why you want to do it, because things will get really hard, and you have to have that guiding You when the hard things come up, and I will also say too that to have realistic expectations of yourself, because we need each other, and you're not going to be able to do everything, and you're not going to be able to connect with every kid, and you're you're not going to necessarily get along with everybody along the way, but you can make a difference with the students that you have right in front of you, and so just to kind of manage those, manage those big ideas, to keeping it real to the kids that are right in front of you,

Anna Gisetti  23:33  
I wrote an article recently, and I mentioned that at the very beginning that you know, coming out of grad school, you think you're just gonna fix everything, and You see all the problems with education and the school systems and family systems, and you're like, I'm going to be the fixer. And you're very quick. You very quickly learn, one way or another, that that's not always going to be possible. And so yes, I love the idea of keeping grounded,

Jenn Smela  23:58  
and you can be a part of fixing and helping that. It just things move slow, sometimes in education. So, yes,

Anna Gisetti  24:07  
it's a glacier. It's a glacier people, not a fast moving stream ever. So do you think because as you were giving your, you know, saying your advice for the people just coming out into the field, I was like, I could totally just remind myself of that right now. Would your advice change for those of us who have been in the field for a while, or would it stay along the same lines? What

Jenn Smela  24:29  
I really hope and that might be my next challenge once I'm once I'm kind of transition out of being the board chair, I do really feel like there is such a need to support veteran counselors in helping us that have been in it for a while, kind of like stay grounded and find our people, and kind of also be able to kind of have that peer mentoring, just because I think sometimes when you're in a career for a long time, you kind of default to these leadership roles. And you feel like sometimes you have to have all the answers, or people think you're going to have all the answers, or you just draw upon experience, which I know that I don't have all the answers, and I know that I have to lean into my colleagues. And so finding a way to be able to like, normalize that. Let's just come together and figure out how to support each other as veterans, to get us through. Because I don't think, I think that there's a reality that people aren't staying in school counseling as long as maybe some of us oldies, you know, have been in but I feel like if we can support people to stay in long enough, then I think that it's rewarding, you know. So I feel like I want to find a way to do that better than we have been. I

Anna Gisetti  25:47  
think what you just said maybe may have just birthed like a brain child, because we do have mentorship committees, we have professional development, and oftentimes we do focus on the young people or greener people in the field, I should say, whether it's a career transition or whatever, if you're a newbie to school counseling, we put a lot of energy there as you were talking, and I was active listening, but also the wheels were spinning about like, Huh, what? There might be an opportunity there, Jen, for us to think about committees and what kind of supports we can provide to the veterans in defining like, what would that look like? What would that support be? Because at least for us in the state of Colorado, we don't get supervision like other therapeutic fields do, and other people in mental health do. And so that's something that I've been thinking about and yearning for, actually, like a space to be with other people who get it Yes,

Jenn Smela  26:48  
and make it like part of professional practice, and build it into our regular days like we should, and be able to do it like for credit, to help us renew our licenses. You know, like, I just feel like there's a way to honor, there's a way to honor, like, time and space for people to come together and support and mentor, like peer mentor each other we're gonna face.

Anna Gisetti  27:11  
Yeah, I really like this idea, so let's, let's keep that rolling and not, not lose that idea. I do know that CSCA has a partnership with the school counselor Mental Health Initiative, endearingly called shmee, through the Denver seminary, they have been trying to reach out to school counselors to collect some data about thoughts, feelings, just kind of like getting the pulse of where school counselors in our state are, how can people access that survey so that they can give their voice to to that endeavor?

Jenn Smela  27:50  
Adam and Dan are amazing. And there, it's such a great partnership between CSCA and me. Love to say shmee Those and I think kind of just connecting back to what we were talking about, they're really gathering data for us just around counselor identity and how we can kind of support counselors new to the field, but also veterans, and kind of really being able to dial in on the types of things that CSEA can do to support counselors in The state of Colorado. So you can go to the CSCA website, and there is a link to the schme survey on our website. You can also follow us on the socials and there's links there and a QR code that will take you to the SME survey. And I think it's, is it coloradoschool counselor.org is that our website? So coloradoschool counselor.org you're always welcome to email me, Jennifer dot smell at coloradoschool counselor.org and I will forward any information to you. So I would love people to reach out and please, we need the voices of school counselors from all across Colorado, rural, mountain, urban, small town. We need all. We need your voices so we know how best to support you. So please do that if you can from

Anna Gisetti  29:14  
planes to peaks, people, we need your voice. Fun question for you, what was your high school mascot?

Jenn Smela  29:21  
Oh, we were the range view Raiders. Go, Raiders. What's a raider? Like a, I think it's like a pirate, you know, like they were, like raiding. The it was, I just remember the mascot had like a sword and kind of like a hat and then like a patch over their eyes so range view Raiders, some like a land locked pirate or something. I don't know.

Anna Gisetti  29:47  
Do you feel like a connection to the now Las Vegas Raiders because of that? Oh,

Jenn Smela  29:53  
absolutely not. Are you kidding me? No, wait, Broncos all the way. I can't even. And I can't even have any allegiance to any kind of other Raider. No way

Anna Gisetti  30:03  
I like it. Okay, so my high school mascot was a kangaroo, and I went to school in a tiny town in Connecticut, in the middle of, like, farms and, like, 1600s cemeteries and stuff. Yes, and how they came to be the kangaroos. I don't know if I'll ever know, but I was telling Matthew the other day that my brother was the mascot, and our colors were orange and black, so we had this orange and black kangaroo mascot. But anyway, I digress, who would win in a battle between the kangaroo and the Raider?

Jenn Smela  30:39  
Oh, I feel like people might think the answer might be the obvious Raider, but I feel like you can't underestimate a kangaroo, right? I feel like the kick, you know? Like, yes,

Anna Gisetti  30:51  
yes, they're punchy too. Like that, yeah. Like, I've seen some videos on the YouTube, and they get in some extreme battles those kangaroos. So that's exactly right for sure. Don't underestimate the Roo. Y'all on that note, Jen, I just wanted to say thank you so much for being with us today. I again, just will echo myself from the beginning. I think you're a phenomenal human being. Your contributions to the field have just been outstanding, and you continue to work tirelessly. As the chair of CSCA, you care so genuinely for everybody who comes across your path. And there's just You're very special person, and so I'm very grateful to have had this time with you on the pad podcast. Podcast, yes, pad cost, oh boy,

Matt Cundill  31:41  
you've been listening to from planes to peaks, counselors speak a podcast from the Colorado School Counselor Association. For more resources, including frequently asked questions and professional development, go to coloradoschool counselor.org 

Tara Sands (Voiceover)  31:56  
produced and distributed by the sound off media company you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai