Audrey Gordon: History Making MLA

This podcast was recorded on the ancestral lands on Treaty One territory, the traditional territory of the Anishnawbe, Cree, Oji Cree, Dakota, and the Dene peoples, and on the homeland of the Métis nation.

This is Humans, On Rights. A podcast advocating for the education of human rights.

Here's your host Stuart Murray.

My guest today has made history not once but twice.

History was made in 2019 when today's guest Audrey Gordon became one of three black candidates elected to the Manitoba Legislature.

Audrey Gordon made history a second time in 2021 when she became Manitoba's first black cabinet minister. Welcome Minister Audrey Gordon.

Thank you very much for that introduction and for your warm Manitoba welcome.

It's my pleasure to join you for today's program.

So minister you are the Minister of Department of Mental Health Wellness and Recovery.

What does that entail at this point?

It's a new ministry.

But what sorts of elements will you be looking at in that capacity?

Yes, I am the newly minted Minister of Mental health wellness and Recovery and that is going to include programs dealing with mental health, supports for Children, youth adults, seniors, first nation communities, addictions as well.

Looking at all the addiction, supports the types of substances that are being used.

Whether it's it's meth opioids and how do we address these spikes that we have seen in in the past few years.

So we'll be looking at addictions as well and then wellness is an area that is not talked about a lot and that is the area that I refer to as the prevention side of the ministry where we are going upstream and we're, looking at how we prevent treatments from a current downstream as a person's condition becomes chronic or or requires medical intervention.

Recovery is also a big part of of the ministry because we want to have a very recovery focused approach to the work that we're doing, whether that's in mental health or addictions were also taking a whole of government approach, which means that health is not just focused on the health ministry, but it also needs other departments such as Families, Education, Justice.

So, we will all be around the table talking about how do we take this whole of government approach to addressing the issues around mental health and addictions.

So very much looking at the service delivery organizations here in the city, in the rural areas and as well as in the north.

So the fairly big ministry big challenges, but we were building a great team, We're gonna talk a lot today, particularly.

I want to get into some of your background because I think some of the issues you just talked about that you're going to be focused on.

You come by naturally because of your background of what you've done for a number of years, whether it's working in the regional health authority, in the, in the public sector.

So, but what I'd love to do is the Minister start at the beginning, you were born in Jamaica, How is it that you came to Canada and talk a little bit about all of that and what brought you here today?

Thank you for for that question.

So, I was born in Jamaica in a little town called, curious and a lot of the listeners may know that because it's really a tourist destination for visitors to the island.

The seventh child born to my, my parents, I come from a family of eight.

I have five brothers and two sisters.

My family immigrated here to Canada in the early 1970s.

I was five years old at the time.

So I came, I came here through just, you know, my parents wanted to give us an opportunity to have a really good education at all levels, not just in the early years, but post secondary as well.

And they felt there were more opportunities available to us to really excel here in Canada.

What I did find out from my father very late in my life was that he had the choice between England and Canada and chose to come here.

We had a lot of family members living here.

So it was more about family reunification and and having a strong bonds with family here.

So I came here at an early age and you know, Stuart I, I remember coming out even though I was young coming out of the Winnipeg international airport and saw these white flakes falling from the sky.

And I come from my mother is a devout christian and so the story of mana falling from heaven and I can remember thinking is this manner.

Right, right.

Yeah.

Have I arrived?

I'm only five, come on, I'm only five, so here's manna falling from heaven.

So, but I learned very early on that I was different immediately upon entering the school system.

There was a lot of evaluation done of in terms of placing me in in classrooms.

And that happened for most of my early years in school that I was always evaluated to determine whether I could move ahead in a grade and which class should I be in and do I need extra help with with language or or spelling or or mount I can really remember that affected me in terms of my self worth and valuing of myself and what I was capable of doing.

And so I, my family moved quite a bit in the early years of my life, we started out living in the Wolseley area and then we moved downtown to the west end area.

So I went to like Laura C chord School, General Wolfe, Sergeant Park School and then we moved to Fort Garry and I attended General Being school high School was Vincent Massey Collegiate and now I live in the southeast area of the city, I can't ever remember like in school, I don't remember like in it, it was sort of a means to an end something you had to do on a daily basis to to get the job done.

I really didn't develop a love for education until I went to university because then of course I was focused in on what I enjoyed.

Yeah, so Minister, let's just stay for a minute.

And when you were younger in terms of school, any activities is there, you know, sometimes people aren't that crazy about school, but they have great band programs or they have, you know, athletic programs.

Is there is there anything that you got you kind of interested that that was a a byproduct of the education system.

Well, you know, one of the things I I was, I I didn't gravitate towards music, but I certainly loved art and and I love sports and so I tried out for all the sports teams and remember I could not make any of the teams because of course, you know, kids are being groomed in sports from early age here where I was coming in, I had never played volleyball before, I've never played basketball and and so I tried out for all the teams and and didn't make any of the teams, but then I heard about, well cheerleading, you could be a cheerleader, you could still be at all the games and I thought well I might try that and so I tried out for cheerleading and made the team and that helped me to still enjoy my my passion for sports because I was right there at all the games And later on I actually continued to pursue that the cheerleading, you know, avenue I I was a cheerleader for the CfL Winnipeg blue bombers for several years.

Yeah.

It's funny how I tell different, different interviewers, different things as I remember them, you know, it's not that I'm trying to be evasive, it's that I remember them at different times and I really enjoyed that.

That love for sports has stayed with me over the years.

My boys are very athletic, very much into sports.

I watch all the sports that I can, I can get an opportunity to see ranging from tennis to gulf too.

Football, baseball.

I love them all.

Well.

Now when you're watching football, let me just ask you when you go to a football game, are you watching the players on the field?

Are you watching the cheerleaders to see how well they're going to know I am watching the players and the refs like I watched super bowl game and I was calling offsides before the ref did.

I thought that was so good.

And before they threw the yellow flag, I said flag on that plate.

So I really love it.

And and my boys think it it's just great because we're all very much into sports and very athletic.

So so I really gravitated towards sports and and and my passion for that has grown over the years.

So went through university, but I took a bit of a back door to, to to university because I I I met my husband when I was in high school and we married shortly after high school and we had our first child a year after we were married.

So I take parenthood very seriously.

And so, so my boys, they were the focus of my life as, as they were growing up, but I did do some post secondary education while I was raised in them, decided that I would move on to completing my masters degree.

I decided to do my Master's in Business Administration.

It was always my father's dream for me to be a medical doctor.

That didn't happen then I thought, well, maybe if I did my PhD that would make him happy because he could still say I'm a doctor.

Exactly.

My sadly, my father passed away three years ago and remember in ST I didn't fulfill that dream of his, but it was also his, the night before he passed away, he really encouraged me to run for election again.

So, as you know, I ran in 2016, I was not successful, but the night before my father died, he really encouraged me to try again.

It was his wish that I would be elected and that one day I would become a Cabinet Minister.

So, here I am.

Yeah, no kidding, wow, that's a that's a that's a great story minister and I'd love to just spend a bit of time going back to your sense that, as you say, when you don't like high school or just, you know, grade school, like get that so many people are the same and the focus that you had, I mean you're a mother raising a family.

It's not exactly, just lets me decide.

You know, I'm going to take a course and I'm going to get my uh, my Master's degree in Business Administration.

I mean that is a hall and so what, what motivated you to sort of focus on that in particularly I I say this to my boys and when I speak to the classes in the classroom of students in Southdale, I say to them that it's all incremental change its, you build on achievements and success.

I had a hard time in my early years believing in myself, I never felt that I was worthy of being successful or having a good life and, and that I think was in part due to some of the racism I experienced in my early years and I wasn't able to name that until quite a while a time after that.

So when I finished my, my first certificate in counseling, it, it just, it inspired me and motivated me to keep going.

And so then I did my undergraduate degree that took me a while to complete because my boys were still young and when I completed my undergraduate degree, I was working in the health care system at that time.

And I thought now I'm remembering a lot more than I did before, but I wanted to be the ceo of the hospital interesting and I thought, well how could I combine my work experience with my education to just give me that bump up so that I could apply for positions like that.

And I considered completing the Master's in Health administration and I was considering the Master's in Public administration as well as Business administration.

And I decided on business because my husband and I co own a small transportation business.

And when I reviewed the three masters programs, I found that the business administration program provided more flexibility in terms of like you if you study health and you people naturally expect you to be in health and whereas business administration you could take to several different sectors.

So I decided on that program and chose to complete my program at Asper School of Business.

So I really admired what the Asper family had done has done here in this province and I wanted to be able to apply what I learned in the program at work and and to enjoy a program that was Manitoba based.

So it's it's, I had intended all along to do a PhD as well.

I was actually only talked out of doing a PhD um a couple of years ago by someone I worked with who has a PhD that said why would you need it?

Right.

But I had planned to do the PhD.

But yeah so one of the things I I I share in my interviews is that 15 years before I did my M.

B.

A colleague of mine came to me who was in the NBA program and said you know Audrey you should do the N.

B.

A.

And without hesitating or thinking about it.

I turned to her and said I'm not smart enough to do the N.

B.

A.

And just to give you a glimpse into what I shared earlier that for years I didn't believe in myself And my ability to be successful or to achieve academically.

Then 15 years later I'm graduating from the MBA.

With distinction.

So it's just and I share that even with students that are young because it's important for them to know that that they can overcome these you know when I talk to them I call them bad feelings and feelings of of not being good enough worthy enough, valuing oneself.

And and and so I share my story about the N.

B.

A.

It wasn't until I went into the N.

B.

A.

And encountered some of the C.

E.

O.

S.

That came to speak to our our classes and the professors that really worked with me on like I have a mentor now and sometimes he says to me he will be sitting in his living room.

He'll say why don't you see what I see in you?

What what is why don't you see that?

And and and so it was similar when I was in the NBA program, the professors would sit with me and say, you know, I want to remember you now because they said you are destined to do really great things.

And that really helped me to start to say yes to opportunities that I never thought I could do.

And two positions that I didn't think I could assume and do a good job.

So I would say the defining moment in my life was when I went into the NBA program.

Because yeah, for sure, for sure.

So, so Minister, let's uh let me just pause because I always don't want to keep this a bit in context.

It's an amazing story that you've been on and goodness those you have runway in front of you.

You know, the notion of being a C over the hospital, I'm not here to predict.

But you know, that day may come still for you.

So, but when I think about some of the issues and you know, we I think we both were um on the virtual launch of Black History month, which has now become black history Manitoba.

I just, you know, you talked a little bit about when you were younger, some of the things that you started to discover some of the challenges and you talked about racism just because I think it's important for listeners to understand from your perspective.

When did you first realize that there was this issue of racism and that that was having an impact on you?

I'd love to get a sense of how you felt about it because I think it's important.

You know, you're so big on mentorship that I'd love you then to tell us a little bit about how would you tell somebody else when they came to you and said, I recognize myself in you.

I'm the same color of skin and you and I've just been called a very, very terrible racial slur.

So tell me a bit about how you felt about that and how you would work with others.

Well I first encountered what I call the N word when I was in elementary.

I can remember being called that word several several times and having to ask someone like what, what does this, what does this mean?

And of course my hair was very curly.

So a lot of teasing about like the curly nous of of my hair.

My my parents, I mean there were eight Children.

So so we didn't have name brand clothing and all of those things that, that you see nowadays.

But um, so being teased about not having jeans, I remember when I purchased my first pair of jeans, it was after I had saved up some money from babysitting and I remember we lived in the west end at the time and there was a thrift store on sergeant and I went into the thrift store and that's where I bought my first pair of jeans.

So I remember it so much from elementary school and and just that being beaten up and taunted and bullied and I remember one day I was made to, it was winter time and I was made to put my tongue on, on a chain link fence.

So, so so things like that and, and and that really, as I said, really chipped away at at at my, my emotional state, but I would not have known that then.

So if someone comes to me now, I I really am impressed with what the school system is doing, to call out bullying, to call out racism, to put a stop to it, to hold Children and their parents accountable for their behaviors and their conduct because it really does, it can destroy lives.

So even with mental health and addictions, we talk about what is the root cause and drilling down to the root cause.

And sometimes we see that these issues began in childhood or in the early years of school where there was trauma and the person continues to suffer from that trauma and they choose to to address it with substance use or they develop mental mental health issues.

So I think it's important if someone were to come to me, I would say that they need to address it if it's at the school age, they need to take this up with the school administration and ensure that it's dealt with Yeah Minister, it's hard not to have a conversation with a person of color when, you know, the issue of George Floyd comes to mind, you know, to watch that murder happened live on television as the world did.

It's interesting that it has been to some extent a pivot for so many people, a lot of white people who are looking at that and a lot of white people I know, came out to the Black Lives for Justice rally, which was unprecedented in front of the legislative building.

But I look at your experience minister, you know, growing up, as you say, as a youngster and being, you know, racially bullied and some of those things when you see something like that happen and you see the response that has happened because of that and there's others.

But let's talk about George Floyd for just a minute, how do you feel about what, what the reaction is, what's your sense of that?

You know, I was at the rally at the legislative building and I was so deeply moved by what I saw that day in terms of the the diversity of the people that that came out that day.

So it wasn't a black rally, it was a rally that was attended by people of different ages and backgrounds.

So it was coming together in solidarity to address an issue that needed to be talked about.

And I was, you know, when George Floyd was killed, I initially was didn't say much because I like to be a thoughtful person, so um and not a reactive person, so I like to think things through and allow things to just absorb things and and and be thoughtful about it.

And shortly after George Floyd was killed, I experienced a racist incident where my bus bench was vandalized with the N word and my eyes were blackened out and things like that.

And I was interviewed several times about it and I said, you know, this is this is an act of like one person, it certainly wasn't an indication of how my community feels about me, but an individual who wants to divide and cause division within the community and spread their own hate and stereotypes about black people.

I think the you know, in one interview, I said that the Black Lives Matter movement was going to be the second coming of the civil rights movement.

I don't think this is going to die out.

I don't think it's going to peter out as we would say and people move on to other things because I don't think our next generation is going to tolerate it.

These are individuals who are activists.

Many of them are activists, they are outspoken, they want social justice.

And so I I'm very heartened by what I have seen and I hope it continues to take shape and to to influence our society to change because we really need to change.

There's no place for racism in our society.

Yeah, and I that was a terrible incident.

And again, I just admire you how you handled it.

I mean, you talked about the fact that this was an assault on the community, it's not about you as an individual.

I thought you handled that extremely well.

Minister.

One of the things that I think what happened at that Justice for Black Lives rally, as you mentioned, there was different ages.

There was I mean, there were indigenous people there, you know, there were obviously lots of people of color and I think the notion of trying to bring in all of this systemic racism that it it is really targeted against people of color and we need to have that conversation.

Do you feel that, you know, you're you're now a public person.

I mean, you you you're you're part of history being elected to the legislature and as a as a woman of color, do you think that there's a platform, a proper platform to have conversations around systemic racism that are that are you say it's it's about having a thoughtful conversation in the sense that it's not finger pointing or desk pounding or I mean everybody knows the history whether they want to admit it or not, everybody knows the history, but the notion of how do we have that conversation because I think the education around that and your comment about the next generation being maybe just a little bit more smarter than we are, that they can make those things happen.

How do you feel about sort of the platform of having safe spaces conversations around systemic racism?

That's a really good question.

I see a lot of that happening right now.

So after the Black Lives Matter rally group of of black community leaders came together to develop and launched the coalition of black leaders and they have been engaging with government and the provincial government and even at the municipal level on some of the issues and some of the strategies that they feel need to be implemented to address the issues that are important to the community.

And it's it's an umbrella umbrella organization that represents many of the smaller groups in our province.

And I think we've done some good work so far.

So they put together a full report on, on political and engagement and how to engage with their community police reform.

All of those things have come forward in their report.

And and so it's an opportunity to to be, we've started that work during Black History month is also a great opportunity and I see that happening as well.

We're going to have a panel discussion for high schools.

I will be sitting on that panel with a number of different individuals and we're talking we're not hiding, we're and pretending things away, we're talking about it in open spaces and safe spaces and so I think Black History Month has really given an opportunity to do that and to continue those discussions and then there's always the groups out of the universities that that that continue to have different opportunities throughout the year to have these engagement and discussions.

But as I said before, it's not going to go away, it just is not anyone who believes that is fooling themselves, it's not going to go away and and it has to be dealt with.

So so I think there's some great opportunities and we have started that work.

Yeah, and that's great to know it.

I again, building on the community, the black community, which is very vibrant in in Winnipeg and Manitoba, changing Black History Month to recognize that it's Black history Manitoba, that it's it's it's forever and goes on.

So to that point, I think it's amazing.

I want to touch a little bit on mentorship.

One of the things that you said that when you became a minister, you I think you gave a shout out to your your homeland Prime Minister Holness, I think you kind of made that comment that he would be proud, sure he is, but you've made a community proud.

But you talked about the notion that you you stand on the shoulders of people who have created a foundation mentors and you said we don't have enough time to list them all here, but I would love you to explore explain sort of what did you mean by that, you know the mentors that have caused you to become the person you are minister and how you are giving back to others, when you have a chance to sort of be a mentor to others.

So now I would not have named them mentors at my young age, but they were and my greatest mentor without a doubt, it was my father and had it not been for him daily, like we were best friends and had it not been for him, talking to me on a regular basis about not giving up and working hard and proven yourself and and you will be one day recognized, I wouldn't be here today, so I, I give him a lot of credit but mentors in in the form of, of people from the black community, so we have leaders like Mavis McLaren norma walker who ran for for office wade Williams has passed away and we all know wade very Oh yeah, there's only one, yes and you know, several other individuals, prominent individuals, we have lowest Stewart archer who's now the honorary consul for Jamaica here in Winnipeg.

The list is just extensive of men and women who have have had breakthroughs in our community that have made it possible for for me to have the opportunity to run for election and and to be where I am today.

So when I talk about mentors, it's individuals that see your potential and can help too to bring that to fruition, so whether they do it through coaching through ensuring that you you study the right program, um you know, one of the things my my father really stressed and emphasized was your friendship circle and the environment that you're in and the people that that you, as he said, hang out with and and making sure that those are individuals that can inspire you and motivate you to to become all that you can be.

And so I think mentors are critically important.

I said in one of my radio interviews that for women, mentors don't necessarily have to be another woman.

So the mentors that are in my life now are for men and and so at different stages, your mentors are changing, it's not that you're carrying them through your entire the entire trajectory of your life, it's changing depending on what your needs are.

And so but they are critically important because, you know, I said in one of the interviews that I have one person who shakes me up, that's the person that I mentioned that always says to me in his living room, why don't you see what I see?

But they're also guiding me and establishing very clear goalposts of achievements that I must make and holding me accountable and you know, it's a tough job in politics.

So there are times when I don't want to do it anymore.

I don't, I I you know, there there are times when the issues are really tough and and there there to get me over that mountain or out of that valley.

And I think if an individual doesn't have a mentor, I mean you can always be internally motivated but that only takes you so far and you can't no you must know what you you don't know and and those individuals are there to keep you rooted and focused and and so I talk a lot about mentors and I want I'm a mentor for several people, men and women, single people, married people seniors because you know we're always growing and changing and developing and so we can always use guidance from another individual.

So I have acted and continue to be a mentor to several people.

And so I stressed that on that day because I was there because I was standing on the shoulders of many people and I didn't want to give the impression that I got there on my own because I didn't.

Yeah, really well said and so minister you're now going to have the opportunity to allow people to stand on your shoulders because the fact of life is that when Manitoba and we're talking in the year 2019, I mean we're doing this interview in 20 21.

But the point is is that you know to have three members of the black community elected to the Manitoba Legislature for the first time.

And so often, you know, younger people are looking around to say, well, what what could my future be?

And up until the three of you were elected, you know, I'm sure that when you were first approached it, I mean it has to be just a natural feeling to look and say, well I'm interested, but I don't see any other people like me, I don't see anybody like me there.

I'm not that I'm afraid to go, but it sure would be nice to see other people that have the same color skin that I do now you have created that barrier.

So when you go to speak to schools, you go speak to all sorts of classrooms.

I mean, there are probably things that you are sending incredibly positive signals about that you're not even aware of that.

That's quite likely.

Um you know, for for reading month and reading month.

I love to read month and Black History month all in the same month of february.

So I try to combine recognition of both months in all my discussions with with classic classrooms.

So I I go in and like this year I went to the older grades and not just in my constituency.

I'm invited to speak in in many different schools and I introduced the commemorative stamp that Canada post distributes every year for Black history month, well not one person in that room knew about that last year.

I talked about Viola Desmond.

No one knew Viola Desmond and we're talking about 789 grade 79.

And some teachers that were in the room when I introduced the bill, the $10 bill didn't know.

And, and so, you know, I'm still really troubled by that.

I'm really troubled by that and I think a lot in the evenings and at night when I lay in bed about how can we change this?

Like how what can I do?

I can't talk to every school and, and so what can we do to elevate the importance of recognizing the contributions of black people to our society?

So, so that's, that's always front and center in in my mind.

And when you talk about the three mls being the first one of the things I was I'm really blessed with and I have a lot of discussions with my husband about this because he was born in Jamaica.

He was raised there, which is different for me.

And, and so we talk a lot about his experiences and how they differ from my and in terms of our integration into Canadian society.

And one of the things I'm able to do very well is I, I see myself as a Canadian period.

You know, I love Canada, I love all the freedoms and the rights and respond.

I just love the place I really do.

And so I don't have an attachment that may perhaps my husband does or other people that might have that grew up in the Caribbean.

I'm very rooted here when I thought about running.

I was very purposeful in that decision because I wanted to see black people in the Manitoba legislature.

I really did.

And Marcus Chambers is a really good friend of mine and he probably may not have told you, but I was his campaign manager for him too, because and I told him, I told him he was going to run and he's an amazing city councilor and former deputy mayor.

But I think it's so important because I can remember when I was in school, I never saw a teacher that looked like me, never saw a vice principal, never saw principle in university.

I had an East indian professor, but no black professors and I just thought like we've got to make these breakthroughs because young people need to know that this is not out of their reach and and that it's possible and that we belong in every place where decisions are being made everywhere.

And and so I'm really glad the breakthrough was was achieved.

And I hope that there will be several other black mls that will come after us.

And that's nonpartisan know for sure.

And and I and I think you're I think you're right.

I mean, I think you've set some, you know, broken some ground, as I said, you've created history, History does repeat.

And so it's my hope that you're right that you get more people that look at this.

And you know, I I there's a great conversation that I've had with the number of people minister.

And they say that, you know, diversity is really important.

But what is more frankly important that diversity is inclusion.

I mean, it's one thing to be invited to the table.

Another thing to have a voice.

And so I think that's what, what you've done and what you've been able to to do.

And I wanted to just kind of switch and I'm going to use this metaphor.

I want to switch gears, which means we might talk a little bit about motorcycle.

I love motorcycles.

I know it's something that's a passion of yours.

Tell me about that.

Tell me, what do you drive today if you have one?

And how did you get interested in motorcycle?

Okay, so I have always loved motorcycles.

I'm a bit of a high risk taker.

I have a high threshold for pain.

And I love fast cars and anything that drives fast.

And I've always wanted a Harley Davidson motorcycle.

But of course I had no license.

So I without my husband knowing when and took my license and I made sure to custom order my Harley Davidson motorcycle before I did the lessons, just so I would make sure that that I passed.

So I had a Harley had a Harley Davidson motorcycle.

I sold it about two years ago.

It's in a very good home, partly because my husband is terribly worried about me being injured on, on the motorcycle.

So each time I would go out on the motorcycle, he would sit on the front step and wait for me to come back in the distance.

And then my eldest son started talking about having a motorcycle and I thought, okay, I can't have this motorcycle because he definitely cannot be a writer.

So I, and I wasn't able to to go out as much as I wanted to and trips that I wanted to take.

So I said, you know what, I'll sell it and I'll one day come back to it.

So I don't have anything else but have gone into Harley Davidson Winnipeg, yes, many times times to look around, um have taken a turn or two on friends motorcycles, but it's a passion of mine.

I hope to get back to it.

I love it very much.

I really love it.

Yeah, no, I suspect you will minister and, and thanks for sharing that.

Uh, it's always great to get a different personality or a different side of people's personality when you're in politics.

You know, they tend to sort of drive down a certain lane and to sort of know some of these other parts of your history and what makes you go, it's a fascination.

And I'd like to just as we kind of wrap up a Minister, I'd like to ask you if there is a movie or a documentary.

I'm always looking to see if there's some call to action that you might give a shout out to to anybody who's listening.

So is there a movie or a documentary, whether it's to do with systemic racism, racism or just anything that you would look at that you would suggest people have a look at.

So one of the documentaries that I would highly recommend, it's the sixth annual Media that Matters Film Festival.

It's called A Girl Like Me.

It's directed by Cary Davis K I R I D A V I S produced by Real R.

E.

L.

Works Teen Filmmaking diversity awards, supported by Third Millennium Foundation.

This is an amazing documentary.

So it's looking at how early in life black people begin to internalize racism because we don't realize that there are times along our own journey where individuals may feel, may internalize racism as being normal as being like, like I I felt inferior because I was, it was learned I internalized many of the things that happened to me early in my childhood and and hence I didn't think I could be successful.

I didn't think I could achieve big And and so this film is exceptional because what?

Well I won't give it away, but I won't give it away.

You've just got to watch it.

A girl like me, you will be so moved by this how early in life we begin to black people begin to internalize racism and um it's it's just it's a film.

I've recommended it to several people and we always have a discussion after they viewed it.

It's it's an eye opener.

Okay, thank you for sharing and I'll make sure we put it up on our, on our website and then there's there's a book I would recommend the skin, the skin the skin we're in.

And it's by Desmond Cole.

So he exposed the racist actions of the Toronto police force detailing the dozens of times he had been stopped and interrogated under the controversial practice of carding.

So this story came to national prominence and the reason I bring this one up is because I have two boys, they're young, well they're adults now, but one of my sons in particular has been stopped several times.

And you know, I read this book after he shared with me some of his experiences because he's a little hotheaded.

You know, although when he stopped, he he immediately it's got to be because I'm black and all of those things and we discussed it and I think Desmond cole's book really sheds some light on on that issue.

So those are the two that I would recommend.

That's fantastic.

I'm just going to ask you as we, as I have done in the past with some of the other guests if there's an artist that you would say, you know just the best going, the best thing for for the soul, well the best thing for the soul is bob Marley Without you know, I talked to my husband, I said it's too bad that man died at such a young age because but when I listened to his songs now I say how did he know about some of these things?

How was he able to foresee this?

Like he was singing about this years and years, like we celebrated what was at his 76 birthday, I think it was last.

Yeah, and I thought wow, his his his music still resonates is still relevant to present day experiences.

Yeah, and perhaps to some extent Minister even more, you know, just because it's becoming a broader, I mean a lot of people sort of got it and you know the the notion that it was sort of you know, reggae music and so that became a thing.

Well it is still a thing for sure, but what is now really more important is the message of that reggae music.

I mean, I think it's just yeah, he was a master, an amazing iconic human rights individual and his music will live on for sure and yeah and thanks for sharing so Minister Audrey Gordon um what a great pleasure just to spend a bit of time to get to know you as a person and thank you for being so open and sharing some of the things that you have experienced.

As I said at the outset, you've achieved some amazing things and the great, great sense of hope is that you still have runway in front of you to to continue to do wonderful thing.

I will be uh it's maybe it's my turn now that I can be the cheerleader on the side to cheer you on just as you started out when in your life.

So thank you very much.

Minister.

Really appreciate your time.

Thank you very much for your time.

I really enjoyed talking with you.

I hope we can get together soon when these covid restrictions are lifted for a face to face, coffee or tea or discussion.

Thank you for the opportunity I look forward to it.

Humans on rights is recorded and hosted by Stuart, Murray social media, marketing by the creative team at full current in Winnipeg.

Thanks also to Trixie.

Maybe you in music by Doug Edmund for more go to human rights hub dot C A a production of the Sound off Media company.

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