Stacey Bradley: Literacy is a Right not a Privilege

Stuart Murray (host) 00:00:00
This podcast was recorded on the ancestral lands on Treaty One territory, the traditional territory of the Anishnawbe, Cree, Oji Cree, Dakota, and the Dene peoples, and on the homeland of the Métis nation.

Voiceover 00:00:19
This is Humans on Rights, a podcast advocating for the education of human rights. Here's your host, Stuart Murray.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:00:30
September 8 is International Literacy Day, and that means a lot of things to a lot of people. In particular, I think the issue of lifelong learning is something that my guest is very passionate about. And I think if you're going to talk about reading, you're going to talk about literacy, some of the great things that are happening, some of the challenges. I can't think of anybody better to have on than the president of the Manitoba Reading Association, Stacey Bradley. Stacey welcome to Humans on Rights.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:01:03
Hi, thank you for inviting me.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:01:05
So, Stacey, you have had an amazing career and lifelong learning as part of what you do. Let's take it right back to the beginning. You are a manitobin.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:01:17
Yes, I am.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:01:18
And where did you do your early schooling?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:01:21
Rural Manitoba. I grew up in Newdale Manitoba and went to school in the nearby community of Strathclyde, and then I moved Brandon later on, but I definitely have rural roots.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:01:32
Okay, very good. Love that. I'm a rural guy from Saskatchewan. So, Stacey, when you were younger, I mean, what sort of things do you think about when you were in school? Was there a favorite teacher that you had? And if there was, why was that teacher a favorite of yours? What did they do to motivate you?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:01:52
Oh, wow. Okay. Well, I do have an early memory, actually a teacher in the school that I think it was grade one, she made Mrs. Stimpson. She made these little plates, and on them were all the books that we read in grade one, and I think mine was Reader. And that's funny that early on, that identity was formed very quickly, and I loved reading all the way through school.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:02:17
And did you find that you realized that they had a great influence on getting you involved in becoming more as a lifelong learner on education and then ultimately getting into the education system? Or did you at some point pivot and say, you know what? I think I want to be a doctor. I might want to be something in a different profession, but you kind of were drawn back in. What got you sort of on that pathway?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:02:43
I don't really know. I think as I went through school, I enjoyed school, and I liked reading, and then I went to university, and one thing led to another, and I started teaching and wound up teaching English language arts, and I just always loved literacy, and I found it easy to promote that.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:03:06
So when you were younger in school, was there a favorite subject that you had that you really sort of enjoyed, or were you just generally a good student all around.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:03:18
I'm not sure I was a great student all around, but I enjoyed learning, I think, and always attached myself to the library. And of course, I had some great favorite teachers all the way through, and I just always found schools to be a good place to be. And I liked gym, and I liked playing sports, and I did all of those things. So no education probably when I was first in school, wasn't my favorite thing. I probably was more interested in just doing all the things that kids like to do.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:03:53
Right. Yeah, I know. Fair enough. And part of it is always when I have people like you who are experts or advocates in a certain area, again acknowledging that September 8 is International Literacy Day, it's always interesting to sort of find how it is. Now you're the president of the Manitoba Reading Association with your whole education background. So to find yourself in that sort of leadership position, it's always interesting to find what is it that I mean, some people just fall into it. Some people are in meetings, and somebody puts up their hand to nominate you for something, and you find yourself in a position, but you've taken on the role. Stacey, as the president of the Manitoba Reading Association, let's talk a little bit about what does that organization mean to you personally, and then what does the organization do for those people that would be listing that say, hey, tell me more about what this I'm interested in finding out what this organization or association does.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:04:50
Well, I first became involved with Mantoba Reading through my local council. So Manitoba Reading is made up of supports local councils. So I started with Brandon reading Council, and I was their rep. I went to the Mantel Breeding Association meetings, and at the time, the current president, Susan Hayward, had said to me, just come to one meeting.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:05:18
Just come to one meeting. Sort of always seems to work, doesn't it?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:05:21
Yeah, just see what it's all about. And, you know, I stepped in there, and then one role led to another. And one of the big things that the Manifesto Reading Association does is they put on every two years an Adolescent Literacy Summit, and it's a two day PD event, and they always bring in fantastic speakers. And that was, at the time, kind of the one big PD event that I got to go to as an English teacher.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:05:51
Right. And so PD meaning professional development.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:05:54
Sorry.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:05:54
Yeah, no, all good. I just want to make sure. Okay, so professional development day. Go ahead.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:05:58
Yeah. So I got that opportunity to go, and I went to the first one they hosted, and it was so great, and at the end, they were looking for volunteers. And so I slowly got involved with helping to put that on in smaller roles that got larger as time went on. So I've been lucky enough to go to every one of the summits that have been put on since I was early on in my career, really, and they were really formative in some of the ideas and things that I tried in my own classroom later.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:06:35
So let me just ask you, so you talked about it as an adult literacy summit.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:06:41
Adolescent.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:06:42
Adolescent. Okay, so what does that encompass when you talk about adolescents? What age groups or what are we talking about there?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:06:49
So that grade seven to twelve area, and those emerging readers, sometimes we start to lose them when they get into middle school and bringing those teachers together to keep promoting literacy and supporting engagement and literacy skills.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:07:09
Okay, so let me just ask you, Stacey, when you say sometimes we lose them, why is that?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:07:16
Well, I think there's social media influences, there's more things that are going on in their lives. They're going through puberty, they're starting to have relationships that become more important, their friends become more important, they're going out and about more, there's maybe less time, and other things take priority. And we seem to see that sometimes reading takes a dive.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:07:44
Because one of the things that occurred to me when I was doing a bit of research on this topic, Stacey, was as a young person, and I have grandkids now, and I love watching just how advanced they are. In my time, it was See Dick, See Jane, See Dick and Jane, and it was a picture book, etcetera. But now there's so much more advanced. And I guess the question I would like to ask, and maybe we could spend a bit of time discussing this, because it seems at the very beginning, when you learn to read, you're excited, you're learning to read. And then what happens is at some juncture, and I think this is what you're referring to and I'd like to get more thoughts from you about this, is that the love of learning gets changed from the fact that I have to read because school requires me to read this topic or this subject matter. And so it's not the love of learning now, it's a whole different thing. And you just raised a number of reasons why that is, what sorts of things are being done to try to reengage readers at that stage?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:08:48
I think offering choice, giving kids an opportunity to choose what they have to read, having really great authentic text is helpful, connecting to the real world and what's going on, making sure that the text that we do share with kids portray characters that are their age and look like them and have things that interest them, I think that's all really important. And yeah, and maybe sometimes we analyze things to death and kids then see reading as a whole lot of work and not really all that enjoyable.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:09:30
One of the things that I learnt when I was looking at International Literacy Day, Stacey, was that the theme was transforming literacy, I should say learning spaces. And I think what you're referring to is, how do you make that a better place for us if students are starting to lose interest in reading, how do you transform those working or learning spaces? And one of the things I would ask in terms of your background. How difficult is it. I guess. To change the curriculum that has been established for years and years and years. And then you start to realize that there's things like social media. All the things you mentioned earlier. To sort of change the curriculum. To be more adaptable and more flexible and ultimately provide that better learning space.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:10:19
Well, I think one thing is that we do have curriculum, but nothing in that curriculum right now states that we have to teach certain types of text or not so much types of text, but specific texts. Teachers still have that choice of the kinds of text that they use with their students. So we have curriculum, but it certainly does not mandate using the same novels over and over again. We do have choice. And so I think that's where when we look at our budgets and we buy new books, we have to think about whose voices are being heard, where is it set, what gender is, are the main characters, who's the author, where do they live. Those are the kinds of things that we have to analyze when we're putting our money into new books. And there are opportunities where we get to buy new things. So it's really important that we think about that when we buy our books, for sure.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:11:28
And again, one of the things that is very evident now when you look at what's happening in the curriculum, stacey, is there's a much more diverse group of people that are learning, much more diverse group of people that are attending schools. The fact you come from a rural background, there's urban settings, there's different ways that people are being exposed to different elements. Has that been something that has caused any issues with respect to setting curriculum, that whole issue around diversity?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:11:59
Well, I think it's a topic that deserves discussion, and it's a topic that's going to create tension. And tension isn't always bad, because tension makes us question. And if we're questioning what is the purpose of this text that I've chosen, and we think about that, I think that's good. I think we always have to be questioning, why have I chosen this? What is my purpose? What do I expect to get from this? How do I expect kids to react to it? What do I expect them to learn? How do I see this helping them grow?

Stuart Murray (host) 00:12:37
And so, Stacey, would you say that the students have much opportunity to sort of give input as to what they would like to see in the curriculum? I mean, understanding that they may give ten different ideas and maybe ten of them aren't all great. One or two might be, but is there a chance for them to share what they would like to see in the curriculum?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:12:57
I think that depends totally on the school and the teacher and a number of factors. But I think that any time any of us as human beings are provided opportunity to have choice and to learn in a way that answers our own questions, you're going to get greater engagement so we can't please everyone and we can't give a million choices. But I think that when we have the opportunity to do that, we need.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:13:28
To try for sure. Stacey, one of the areas you talk about is that ability to do the best you can and let them get engaged. If you sort of step back for a bit, there's sort of thoughts about as students have the opportunity to learn. Is there a sense that graphic novels, which are coming more and more sort of evident today, or comic books to some extent, and I was a great reader of comic books when I was younger, but is that okay in your mind for children to learn?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:14:04
I think they are fantastic, and I think that any opportunity to incorporate those kinds of books into what we're doing is great. They're visual, they're engaging. I can't think of a better way to teach reading strategies. Really, they're wonderful. And I think we need to promote them more and make sure that when we're talking about graphic novels, we share that they are novels, they're not comic books. And there's a difference between a comic book and a graphic novel.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:14:37
So describe that. What's the difference?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:14:40
Well, a graphic novel is a novel, so it would be a story from beginning to end that has all of the character development and depth of setting and conflict that a normal novel would have. Comics can be sequential and kind of more in series. And often if we think about how they're printed, the history of comic books, if you think about Archie and Veronica and some of those, those are very different than some of the newer published graphic novels. They're beautiful. And the pages and the color, there something that kids will pick up and read. And for some kids, truly, you can go through them quicker. There is less text, but they're quality pieces, and we need to promote them more as educators.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:15:37
So on that notion, Stacey, there's again some conversation, I'm sure, at your level and in education about moving from again, I'm going back to when students or children are younger and you have the alphabet. So A is for apple, B is for boy, and it's sort of one page, one letter, one big graphic picture. And then there's the notion that you move to simply just chapters, and there's very little images. Is there a time that that should happen, or is there any studies that say that? Because I think the graphic novel as you reference it kind of is a nice segue to kind of put those two pieces together because sometimes moving from things with big pictures and only a letter or something, that gives you a sense to understand, to simply a novel which is page after page after page, that is a big leap for many people.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:16:35
Yeah, and I think that graphic novels can also have chapters, same as what an early chapter book for children would have. But I think that we're living in a very visual world now and all of the kinds of things that we need to do when we're reading a graphic novel to make sense of information are the same things that we have to do when we view a web page or a poster. We're inundated with visuals maybe we weren't 20 years ago. And so it is important for early readers right up to adults to really learn how to view images. And I think that it is a natural segue because when you get into picture books or illustrated books, it's just another move up a continuum of skills.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:17:27
Yeah, interesting. And then the other thing I was just going to sort of get your thoughts on were when you talk about ebooks, eeaters, computers, people spending a lot of time on screens, I know there's a lot of concern from parents about how much screen time do children have. Is there again, sort of a middle ground to sort of say, look, if you're reading something on a computer screen versus say, watching tech talk or doing something that people are also welcome to do in their own spare time. But is there something there that is also looked upon now in 2022? That's not a bad thing. It's not perceived as just screen time if you're using it as a way to sort of read or advance or read issues or articles.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:18:12
Well, I just want to share this term by literate readers. So as we are getting more and more tax savvy and children are using devices and electronic materials more, we need to be able to move from electronic to print. And I really, truly believe that there will never be a time when people are not going to desire a good print book. We like paper and libraries hopefully will exist forever. But there is a time and a place and we just need to find the purpose of when we need to use those skills electronically. Sometimes I really like to read on a digital device. I like to read on my iPad or my Kindle, and other times I like to flip over and have it be print or there's a time for an audiobook. You know, it's nice sometimes being able to just touch on the word and look it up in the dictionary or highlight my notes and have it just saved for me, knowing what my purpose is and then being able to use the skills for that purpose is really important.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:19:24
Yeah, I think it was obviously a comedian done in jest, but basically in caps, it said, Support literacy. A child who cannot read cannot text. So trying to make sure you get that done. So, Stacey, let's talk a little bit about the role of the Manitoba Reading Association. Let's dive into that organization. Are people that are involved in that, are they all educators, all teachers? Or who makes up the membership of that association? The Manitoba Reading Association.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:19:53
Many of our members are teachers, but you certainly do not need to be a teacher. I just had an email from Manitoba nurses. I mean, anyone who's promoting literacy is welcome to join us. To be a member of Manitoba Reading Association, you simply just need to be a member of either a local council or our manageable reading. If you are not served by a local council, and if you are a member of the International Literacy Association, then you're automatically a member of the association.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:20:24
Okay. And so if somebody wanted to was listening to this and say, oh, I'd like to find out more about that Manitoba Reading Association, the council, how would they do that?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:20:34
So you would reach out to if you are in an area that has a local council, so there is a reading council, greater Winnipeg. There is Brandon reading council. There is the Manageable Council of Reading Clinicians. For that one, you have to actually be a certified reading clinician. And then there's the hamuna Escarpment reading council. And they all have websites.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:20:59
Okay, I was going to say, so it's on your monitor, but a Reading association website, which I'll make sure that I put into the notes here. You mentioned something about some sort of clinician. What term do you use?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:21:11
There the Reading Clinician. So there's a group of council manageable reading clinicians. So they are certified reading clinicians.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:21:19
So tell me, what does that involve? What does a reading clinician do?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:21:24
So they would work with students or people who would like some support with literacy concerns. They're mostly private. They do private consulting, some work in school divisions. But you can find more information on that on their website.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:21:43
Okay. Yeah, just it's a term that I hadn't heard. So when you brought it up, I thought I'd ask you about it. The Manitoba Reading Association is obviously, as you say, it has an internationally affiliate. And you're very much active, Stacey, in the communities trying to recognize people that do great work around literacy. I think you have, if I'm not mistaken, I saw on your website, Kocus Awards that you use to do that. Did you want to talk a little bit about that? What they do in particular? I know there was one that caught my attention, the Joel Simkin, who I don't know, but I saw him on there, what he does that sounds pretty amazing. What he's involved in.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:22:26
So the Crocus Awards are put on in partnership with the Reading Council of Greater Winnipeg and the Reading Council of Greater Winnipeg, they do some really amazing things. And so we host that night, basically at the end of the near the end of the school year every year, and we celebrate people who do really amazing things in literacy. And this last year, one of the award winners was Joel. And the interesting thing about that award is that he's not a teacher, but he's a person who advocates for literacy and promotes literacy in his work. We want to support that and we want to celebrate it.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:23:06
And so, just because I did a bit of research on it, as I said, I don't know Joel at all. Stacey but I understand that he's the literacy coordinator for the John Howard Society and Literacy Program, which does work with individuals who are incarcerated, which, again, sounds like such an important program that a lot of people might not even know exists.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:23:28
Absolutely. When he spoke that night, it was really interesting to hear about the things that he was doing. Literacy is important. It's important all throughout our lives.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:23:40
Yeah. I guess the one question I would just ask, do you know anybody, Stacey, or have you ever met anybody in your time that was not able to read?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:23:52
Absolutely.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:23:53
Yeah. And do you want to share that experience? How did you come across that and how did you support that person?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:23:59
Well, and the unfortunate thing is, for some kids, learning to read is really hard. And sometimes there are difficulties that make that process very difficult. For other kids, it's a natural process. I can't imagine being that student, because you're surrounded with people who find this skill to be something that just comes naturally, and they're really not a part of that. They feel left out. And what's easy for some is really difficult for them. And it's heartbreaking, actually. It's something that affects their lives. Not being able to access information easily, send a message, write a note, read an assignment or a poster. These are things that create major problems and make life more difficult.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:24:58
Stacey, how do you discover, without embarrassing someone, that they are unable to read? Can I just ask? I always like to try to sort of get educated. Is it a term if somebody was to say, Are you illiterate? Is that a term that is still used today?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:25:14
Well, one of our main messages in our manageable reading is that we want every manage home to be a literate manager. And yes, what does it mean to be a reader? What's the level that you have to be at? And I would say that sometimes we'll say that person is a literal or that person can't read. But for the most part, people have and kids have some of those skills. They may not be able to read at the level that their peers are or the level that they maybe want to be at, but usually there is some capacity, and that's the frustration. Right. You want to be able to make things easier, and it's a challenge. It can be for a lot of different reasons.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:26:06
Yeah. And are you finding now that you in your professional career, Stacey, are you finding that that is still an issue in terms of the challenge of getting young people to start to read or to learn because they have different ways of learning? Are you finding that that is still an issue, or is it being looked at and there's a lot more improvements that are happening, maybe through technology, maybe through other things that you're seeing?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:26:36
Well, I'm certainly not an expert when it comes to early emergent reading and literacy difficulties with reading. My experience has mostly been with the middle and senior years readers. So I have not been lucky enough, I guess, to work with those young readers. And so my experience is more, once they get to us in a high school capacity, how do we support them to continue to grow their skills from where they're at?

Stuart Murray (host) 00:27:07
Right. Yeah. No, fair enough. I mean, it's a very complex subject, but the part that sort of is interesting to me, Stacey, when I was the inaugural presidency of the Canadian Museum for Human Rights, we learned that this is 194 in South Africa. When Nelson Mandela became the first democratically elected president of South Africa, that was like after three and a half centuries, I think, of colonialism and apartheid, that they had this democratic election, so people actually ran for their positions. And of course, as you and I and others know, that when you go into the ballot box, you would see Stacey Bradley. If you want that person, you put an exposite. If you see Stuart Murray, you can put an expedite. That the challenge in 1994 in South Africa was a lot of people did not read, and so they ended up being very creative, and they put the pictures of the people. So you voted because I could see, oh, I know that that's Stacey, I can see. So I'll put my ex beside Stacy's name or by your picture. I'm sorry. So you look at sort of globally, some of these challenges, and they're also in our own backyard here in Manitoba from time to time. And so I just want to ask, from your perspective as president of the Manitoba Reading Association, Stacey, if somebody's listening to this and saying, how can I get more involved, or are there resources that you might recommend that perhaps somebody should go to some place where they can read or someplace they can listen? Or is there something from a resource center that you might know and anything you recommend? Again, I'll just make sure for the listeners that I'll put it into the show notes so that they can go and they can go to those websites.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:28:50
There are a couple of really good resources on the website. They are parent resources for young children and for adolescents. And there's a couple of guides there. And really, there are just some really good ideas of how to support young children and adolescents in reading and in finding ways to incorporate literacy into our daily lives.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:29:12
Okay. And that would be stacey just so I know, it would be on your Man October Reading Association website.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:29:18
Yes, under the Resources tab, because I did go on.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:29:21
It's a great website, by the way. Very lots of great information on there. And I think it's fantastic. If you were to look and say, for the next summit that you're having, do you want to talk a little bit about that? Have you got sort of a sense of who might be coming to speak at it? And there's things you want to talk about that you're preparing for that?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:29:38
So, on April 21, Crystal Vani is coming to Winnipeg, and we're having a one day event. This will be our first back in person event that we've planned since the Pandemic. We usually try to do something every two years, maybe something small in between, but we've kind of had a break within in person. We've done a lot of online, we've had a series of events, but this spring, we're going to try and get back into live. We will be streaming, so we will have a virtual option as well. So we're really excited about that, and we're really excited to offer some in person professional learning for our members again.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:30:25
Yeah, and get a sense of what the theme or what's going to be discussed at that point.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:30:29
Stacey so, Chris is going to talk about engagement, and she is really well known for working with reluctant learners, and she talks a lot about strategies that teachers can use to engage learners, specifically learners who struggle with text.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:30:50
Right.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:30:51
So, yeah, we're really looking forward to that.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:30:54
Yeah, it sounds amazing. Sounds great. And do you have to be a member of the Manitoba Reading Association to participate?

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:31:00
No, you just sign up, and the registrations will be opening here shortly. So you go to the website and there's a link there and you can sign up. We're also currently underway working on 2025. So that's another exciting yeah, super exciting.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:31:20
So, Stacey Bradley, president of the Manitoba Reading Association, as we sort of wind down this conversation. This podcast is called Humans on Rights, and I'm always delighted to have somebody who is an advocate or an educator on a particular issue. I think you're fit both cases, to be honest, Stacey. But I just like you to make a comment as we close on this comment, and that is, literacy is a right, not a privilege. I love your thoughts on that comment.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:31:46
Literacy is fundamental to play a part in society and to be part of democracy. And it's so fundamental for health and happiness and accessing information and. Participating in our communities. Literacy is the difference between being healthy and happy and being disengaged and left out.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:32:16
Yeah, well said. And thank you so much for taking a few minutes to sort of share your passion, your thoughts on the fact that we have a great organization in Manitoba called the Manitoba Reading Association. It's obviously part of the International Association, and when we celebrate International Literacy Day on September 8, we'll all be thinking about some of the great things that you shared with us today on this podcast. Stacey so thank you for finding some time. I know you're just getting your office organized, getting ready to hear that bell ring and have the students come back into the classroom and the noise and the excitement that's going to be there. So thank you so much for taking some time to speak to me today, and I really appreciate you being on this podcast, and I wish you a great year educating and getting people sort of lined up with the love of reading.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:33:08
Thank you so much. What a great way to start the year.

Stuart Murray (host) 00:33:12
Okay, you take care.

Stacey Bradley (guest) 00:33:13
Thank you.

Voiceover 00:33:15
Humans on Rights is recorded and hosted by Stuart Murray, social media marketing by the creative team at Full Current in Winnipeg. Thanks also to Trixieme Bityouin. Music by Doug Edmond For more, go to human rights hub CA, produced and.

Voiceover 00:33:32
Distributed by the Sound Media Company.