2025 Podcast Predictions: Buy Sell or Hold

Sarah Burke (Voiceover)  0:00  
Matt, welcome to the podcast. Superfriends, five podcast producers from across North America get together to discuss podcasting.

Matt Cundill  0:13  
Hi everyone. I'm Matt Cundill from the sound off Podcast Network in Winnipeg, Canada. This is the podcast Super Friends, and the friends are back together. This may or may not be our last episode of 2024 but it's never too early to talk about predictions, and I thought that's what we would do today. We'll get into a bunch of predictions and buy, sell and hold. But first, let's meet the Super Friends going clockwise.

Catherine O'Brien  0:40  
Hello. I'm guessing that we're all looking the same thing. That's me. Hey, and just, I want to just announce, right off the bat, there is an Easter egg in this frame up of us right now for the really die hard podcast, super friends, fans, just in the predictions episode, I'm just gonna put that out there. Hey, I'm Catherine O'Brien. Branch out programs, I am in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. That is the enemy. Introducing myself. Jack.

Jon Gay  1:08  
Oh, okay, no, I thought I was gonna

Matt Cundill  1:14  
go like to see your author wise, with with young people. Matt,

Jon Gay  1:17  
you just have to call No. It's my fault. I'm John Gay from Jack in Detroit. Podcast, I'm sorry. Jagan de tois podcast, here we get ready for game day tonight in my adopted NFC team.

Johnny Podcasts  1:28  
And I'm Johnny. I'm from Fort Worth Texas, and I'm excited to talk by thought

Jon Gay  1:34  
you're just gonna end with I'm excited and stop there.

Catherine O'Brien  1:40  
Professionals, that's that's what we can say here.

Matt Cundill  1:42  
I came up with the idea of buy, sell and hold, but I think one of you said that that's a TV show as well. Who's Who makes buy, sell and hold, famous Bill.

Johnny Podcasts  1:52  
Bill Simmons does this on his podcast. He does a lot of like, player stock, you know, when they're talking about he does it a lot with NFL and NBA players. So if a player is not living up to expectations so far in their career, but he really likes him. He's like, he sell me his stuff. Sell me your, you know, sell me your Jaden Ivy stock. Who plays for the pistons? Sell me your Jaden Ivy stock. I'm

Jon Gay  2:12  
loading. I adopted them. I did not know that name. You don't have to adopt

Johnny Podcasts  2:16  
them. You, you you can pick and choose Jack, when this patriots suck, you can adopt the July but the Celtics are still good. So you're like, Oh, I'm still a Celtics fan. Must be nice. It is.

Jon Gay  2:26  
It's, I'm sitting pretty here. Who

Matt Cundill  2:28  
thought we'd get to the Day on December 1 when the Patriots were eliminated from postseason contention? You

Jon Gay  2:34  
know what's sad? As I Googled, like, have they ever been eliminated from postseason on their bye week? And I found Yes, 2023

Matt Cundill  2:43  
Oh, okay, maybe it's a trend. Well, we're getting towards 2025 and podcast predictions were pretty sexy for a long time, and one of the things that I found doing research is that many people aren't making as many hot take type predictions as there were in the past, but there are still a few out there. So I thought we'd go over what I found so far to date as we record this in December of 2024 and I'll throw the first one up here, and we'll make it an easy one. This is a general one that I think has been circulating, that's politicians can move the needle by appearing on podcasts.

Johnny Podcasts  3:20  
She's got signs, okay, if you're not in the video version, Catherine, Catherine, so unfortunately, podcasting is primarily audio, so you're gonna have to vocalize your call outs.

Catherine O'Brien  3:29  
I'm just, I'm just setting it up. First of all, that is that not erroneous, that you're starting us off on the wrong foot here. Johnny is podcasting just audio at this point anyway. Yes, I do have a buy sign for this, for this particular one, and I will expound on it right now. Yeah, I think that this was really a very pivotal time for in the United States for our elections. We saw podcasts have a very strong impact on just some relatability for certain presidential candidates. Let's say that we can say the names.

Johnny Podcasts  4:04  
We can say the names. It worked for Trump. It didn't work. Kamala tried it. It worked for Trump, and I think it was done more of it.

Catherine O'Brien  4:11  
And I think it worked for JD Vance too, who's for the for the more general public, maybe a little lesser known. And he and Trump went on some very prominent podcasts, and we're able to talk extendedly and have those all those things that we always talk about for podcasting, that they are, know, like and trust, tool, that they are a room for you to get into nuanced and deeper territory. You can expound on ideas and really get into the nitty gritty, all of those things that make podcasts a vehicle that we really enjoy and like, especially for our clients, that they can do all those things from them. This was really the the time where they had an the podcasting had an impact on their on the overall electoral process, in my opinion. So I say goodbye,

Johnny Podcasts  4:57  
yeah, I would buy as well. And I. Think I'm more of a buy hold. I think that I've, I have owned some of this stock, because I think this was, this is sort of a slow candle burning. 2024 was where it really popped into the mainstream. But I mean, in 2016 Bernie was doing podcasts. In 2020 Joe Biden and Trump were doing podcasts, and this is the one where it really came into the mainstream, I think, and I think what some people may be missing is the fact that there was such a disparity between how many Trump did and how many Kamala didn't do. I think that really launched the conversation forward of this really helped them, because they saw how many votes Trump ended up getting, and all of the shows he was doing versus Kamala seemed to be pulling back and not doing as many. And people thought it was 5050 I thought it was 5050 up until the election day. So I think that that's the little angle that I'm that I'm taking on, that

Jon Gay  5:57  
I'll be the contrarian here, and I'm going to say, hold. I want to scream for the mountaintops that podcasts decided this election, because, let's be honest, that would be self serving for me and for this group. I, you know, I don't want to turn this into a political discussion, but I think there were a lot of other factors that decided the election. But what? But the but I, what I will say in support of podcasts in the 2024 election is that you were not seeing the mainstream media interviews. You were not seeing I believe Harris did do a 2060 Minutes interview. Trump did not, if I'm not mistaken, but you didn't see extensive interviews with network news anchors. You didn't see them coming on cable news. You didn't see them doing this. They really felt the best way to reach their audiences were podcasts. Now, and I will say, you know, there's a podcast. I really go across all demographics age wise. But if you look at the demo, the the massive split in the electorate, which was with younger voters, men overwhelmingly went Trump, and women overwhelming when Harris, which explains why Trump went on Rogan and Harris went on, call her daddy. Could you argue that Harris should have gone on Rogan? Probably, I don't know if Trump would have worked on call her daddy, but, but there's just there is. There's momentum here for podcasting. Did they decide the election? In my opinion, no. Were they a significant factor that it can no longer be overlooked by mainstream political candidates running for the highest office in the land. Absolutely. Well, it's

Johnny Podcasts  7:26  
the same thing we always talk about with why podcasts work for outside of politicians, why podcasts work for businesses? Why do we always say they work for businesses? It humanizes the brand. The candidate is the brand. Now instead of I have a 60 Minutes interview where it feels very corporatized. It feels like there's that wall in between the person and the person that were the viewer and the person that is being viewed or being interviewed. The podcast brings that down, because now it's, it's an hour, it's an hour and a half, or in Trumps and JVs Vance, it's two, three hours of it's not scripted. You can tell it's just a conversation again. You know, there are some, there are some things that politicians will continue to do. They will, probably will bring in guidelines of, hey, we can't, we're not going to talk about this. I'm sure Trump and JD probably had some of things where it's like, we don't want to talk about this. We're going to ignore this or edit this, things like that. But it does feel like that wall comes down a little bit more similar to what we see when businesses start podcasts.

Catherine O'Brien  8:21  
And let me say this to Jack's point, maybe the better thing to say is not necessarily that, did this move the needle for a particular person to be elected? This revealed where legacy media is. I think that is really the truer thing is that podcasting has shown where legacy media is and even just in the numbers, just the reach of the podcast versus the reach of what we you know, the legacy, things that we'd normally associate with the election cycles, fantastically

Jon Gay  8:53  
put and well executed, better than I did. I know you're moderating today, but Matt, you have an opinion on this. Okay? Why? He says hold?

Matt Cundill  9:03  
Gonna say hold, and it because it's not really politicians who can gain it's caller daddy, it's Joe Rogan. It's the podcast industry. So politicians their best practice for going on to a podcast has can't be in an election year. It's got to be any time in the last four years. The most memorable politician appearance I can recall is Bernie Sanders appearing on Joe Rogan, yeah, and that was two years ago. But you know, you talk about the issues of the day, you can actually have the entire political spectrum to yourself and not be in and amongst the noise of an election campaign, which is very, very noisy. And so if you can go in and do this long form podcast outside of election and campaign, I think you can move the needle. But I'm gonna just be on a hold for now with this, and I really haven't brought. And

Johnny Podcasts  10:00  
you're stopped, you're not, you don't own any stock, and you're not buying any or you're keeping the stock that you already have in anticipation that that is going to go up in value. Because I think we should, I'm going to, I'm

Matt Cundill  10:10  
not going to buy this thing. Okay, I'm not going to buy it. I what I really like to see, and it's going to happen is somebody really stick their foot in it on a podcast and have their career sync. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that.

Jon Gay  10:22  
I would love to, I'll put this out there, produce any podcasts for those running in 2026, 2020, and I will happily put together a podcast for you and happily take your campaign money to do it

Johnny Podcasts  10:32  
Jack. You imagine the red tape and the amount of back and forth editing you have to take this out, he breathes too long, and build that into

Jon Gay  10:39  
the pricing, baby. Build it in.

Matt Cundill  10:42  
Can you think about the the ad we could make for that things not go your way in? 2024 2026 might be your year. Have you ever thought about having a podcast called Jag? Are

Jon Gay  10:54  
you volunteering to voice that for me? Matt, that'd be fantastic.

Matt Cundill  10:57  
I'll voice that for you. I'm

Catherine O'Brien  10:59  
Jack Detroit, and I endure and I approve this message, all

Matt Cundill  11:04  
the predictions going forward are going to be the things that Katherine has touched on so far in this show. So we'll start with this one. This one was part of Steve Goldstein's recent newsletter, and that's mainstream media is melting, and Catherine just touched on it a second ago.

Jon Gay  11:21  
Big buy, big she flashed her by right away.

Catherine O'Brien  11:25  
Oh yeah. Well, I mean, I think that's to me, that's the real lesson of this entire time, is, is, and let me just quote this, speaking of podcast, Mark Andreessen recently was on the Joe Rogan podcast, and his point, which I took very thoughtfully was that this was the first internet election, that this is the this is the time when the Internet has really penetrated the mainstream, and it made the difference including things like podcasting and like we were just saying, I do, I do think that this shows what position The legacy media holds now in our society, some of it is generational, some of it is trust, some of it is lack of innovation, all of those things I think play into this

Matt Cundill  12:14  
and that you want to jump on board.

Jon Gay  12:16  
Let me defer to you first, Matt, I'll pick up from, from, from you.

Matt Cundill  12:21  
Yeah, so I have a prediction coming up shortly that that does sort of dovetail into this, but I will,

Johnny Podcasts  12:27  
I'm not sure. Let go, Matt, Join us. Join us in the future. 

Matt Cundill  12:34  
Yeah,

Johnny Podcasts  12:35  
let go. 

Matt Cundill  12:36  
I'm not going to be a full buyer of this, because they still have, they still own quite a lot they have. They have a lot of eyeballs. Still they have. They definitely own the live stream in the on demand area, not so much. I think that's where we're seeing a lot of the erosion. So I'm not really prepared to be a buyer on mainstream media melting.

Catherine O'Brien  13:01  
Matt, what? What is your view on the persuasion power of mainstream media, or media

Matt Cundill  13:10  
diminished, but the eyeballs are still there.

Jon Gay  13:15  
I'm gonna buy with a caveat, so the I'm gonna buy, and then I'm gonna give an example to contradict

Johnny Podcasts  13:23  
myself, but I'm gonna buy it. Here's why you should sell.

Jon Gay  13:26  
I'm gonna buy the theory that mainstream media is melting. Steve Goldstein, article is fantastic. I know Matt and I both shared it on social media. The it's because of the cuts. It's because everybody is cutting staff on the TV and the TV and the radio side. Newspapers aren't even worth mentioning at this point in 2024 but in the TV and radio side, we're seeing so many cuts, so much consolidation, so many decisions being made by corporate bean counters, as opposed to content creators, that with less staff, burning out faster, doing more and more jobs, I just don't think they'll be able to compete the way they used to. It's not dead, but it is melting. And then my loving counterpoint to myself is one of my very good friends lives in San Francisco, and they had a tsunami warning earlier today, December 5, due to an earthquake in the Pacific Ocean. I texted him, I said, tsunami warning you? Okay? And he said, Yeah, we were actually driving back into town, and the news talk station in San Francisco gave us the updated cancelation of the tsunami warning, and they were live, and they were local, and they were on that. So we saw that also with the hurricanes in North Carolina earlier this year. So mainstream media has a place for now, but if San Francisco makes cuts, is there going to be somebody there to report on this? Report on the tsunami? If North Carolina makes cuts, is there be somebody to report on the relief? So it's it's still there, but it's hanging on by a thread. I

Johnny Podcasts  14:50  
have a couple buy I've buy for a couple reasons. Buy one is, I think we saw back to tying it back to the election again. I think one of the other things. It was new about this election cycle was this poly market call sheet, betting market thing. It seemed like what all of the polls were saying was It's neck and neck, It's neck and neck, It's neck and neck. It's swinging this way. It's swinging this way. Versus the markets, the betting markets, the actual people willing to put their dollars on what's going to happen had Trump ahead the majority of the time, and it turned that betting market turned out to be more accurate than the actual national pollsters. So I think that is separation number one. The second one is dovetails off of what Jack was saying was, I think that national legacy media is melting, and that's being replaced by podcasting shows like rogue and shows like the independent journalists that are creating their own shows, whether it's, you know, pod save America, whether it's Tim pool, people like that, but I think what we talked about a few months ago was the opportunity in podcasting is for the niche local market. I think niche local legacy media probably still has a chance because of exactly what Jack just said, the tsunami warnings, people looking at their local papers, their local media, understanding what's happening in their own communities. I think that probably has the best chance for survival, versus national national media, national legacy media.

Jon Gay  16:12  
Well, I'm gonna give you a counterpoint there, Johnny, because I think we've seen a lot of the cuts on the local side as well in media and as the as the lone person on this call who lives in a swing state, and I know you were Catherine and John, you were in a day with ads. I'm sure to what point I was wall to wall ads, September, October, November, every single thing that I watched, whether it was my local stations via YouTube TV, which is my cable provider, or YouTube itself, which at this point I watched almost as I watched watch, you know, every regular television, every single ad was, Trump is Trump is horrible. Harris is horrible. You know, then we had a Senate race here too, in Michigan. So the idea that, you know, am I gonna watch local television when in an election, when all I get is these horrible ads over and over and over again. I remember it was a big line of demarcation for my wife and I. A couple weeks after the election, we finally finished everything on our DVR that was recorded pre election, and then we were finally done with all the political ads, because we finally got through all the programming pre november 5, well, and

Johnny Podcasts  17:20  
it's even the generational thing too, Jack, like, even what you just said, like, I don't, I don't watch YouTube TV, I don't watch cable. I don't watch cable TV. I don't know anybody in my age group that watches any of that we've just I haven't paid for even sports or don't, don't even really watch it. Like, I'll pick up, you know, playoff basketball, college basketball and March Madness occasionally. But, and even even though, with the NFL you're seeing that's moving to Amazon, that's moving to the I think Peacock, yes, the streaming services are starting to pick off these things one by one. And even the even the streaming services are starting to bundle together as well. Get Hulu am or get Hulu Amazon and whatever, HBO Max together, Apple TV for, you know, this set price. So I think there's a generational gap as well. I think that, as you know, the baby boomers start to age out of being consumers in the economy. I think that's going to be the next kind of major slash to the neck of that because you look at airports, you look at retirement homes, they've got CNN, Fox, MSNBC, this, that shit is just on a loop all day long. And I think that that makes up for a majority of the viewers that they're seeing. I think it's a lot worse than what we're even seeing now.

Jon Gay  18:30  
Those do, those viewers count in ratings? Man, I don't know if they do, but, I mean, you're but, but in terms they do, okay, well, there you go. I it's, I think you make a great point there, Johnny, it's the world is changing. You know, if you, you know, if you, you know, woke up from a 40 year coma and you said, Hey, I'm gonna watch the watch a movie. Let me go to Blockbuster. You'd be in for quite a surprise today. Yeah.

Matt Cundill  18:52  
Catherine, also touched on this one. We are now in the era of what's the podcast. So, Catherine, you touched on this earlier, being like, what's a podcast? Is it, you know, is it on YouTube? Is it on Apple? Is it on Spotify? It's two people talking into microphones. Do you agree that we're now in the era of what's a podcast?

Johnny Podcasts  19:19  
I'll go first. Or do you want to? Okay, I'm gonna sell, I think. And the the reason is, is, if you look at something, whether it's on Apple, whether it's on YouTube, whether it is on X or blue ski, or which I like calling it blue ski, or Instagram, or YouTube, I think I mentioned, and you say, is it a podcast? The answer is yes, that definition is universal across content. If it is a long form recording, and you long form, it can, I think anything longer than a Tiktok is considered long form. Now it can be a podcast. I think that I forget what I think jag sent over some talking points. And one of them was the rise of the micro podcast, which is 10 minutes. That's a podcast, if it's audio only, that's a podcast. It's only on YouTube. That's still a podcast. It's content. When we've talked about this over this past year, is that the word podcast has kind of melted into the just content. And I would sell on this, because you can just call it a podcast, and as long as you're talking into the camera or talking into the microphone, and it's going on the internet, and it's longer than the Tiktok, you can call it a podcast, I think the RSS believers, I don't want to bring up that argument again, but the, you know the truth, the RSS truthers, yeah, the QRSs, it. I think that they might be holding on to a dying belief, because it's just it's expanded so much beyond that. Not that that's not a podcast anymore. You can still have an RSS feed podcast. It's just now everything else encompassing that that's also, yes, it's a podcast.

Jon Gay  20:57  
I'm going both here.

Unknown Speaker  21:00  
Oh,

Jon Gay  21:02  
I'm going buy and sell and let me explain what

Matt Cundill  21:04  
he's going to sell short.

Jon Gay  21:05  
Oh, I'm not smart enough to follow all those kinds of things, margins and all that. Okay, so in the what's a podcast era, to put it in Taylor Swift parlance, are you talking about podcasters, or are you talking about consumers? If you're talking about podcasters. I'm buying this because there is this whole for Clemson of what is a podcast and Pearl clutching and, oh my god, is it? Is it a podcast? Is it not really a podcast? RSS feed, audio, video, YouTube, Spotify, Apple people, the people in the podcasting industry, from the OGS to the content creators, or older content creators and older, I mean seasoned content creators, not age. They are feeling that way. But to Johnny's point, consumers are not. Consumers could not give a hoot about what is or isn't a podcast. They call everything a podcast. You know, I'd be surprised if they, you know, watch their YouTube video of a cruise ship, and didn't call it a podcast this point. It doesn't, to paraphrase the rock, it doesn't matter what a podcast is it so consumers don't care. They'll be who care are the people creating the content and talking in the industry. And I think that's where I'm buying first one audience is selling for the other Catherine,

Catherine O'Brien  22:23  
yeah, I think I was gonna hold, here's my little hour

Unknown Speaker  22:27  
class, my hourglass

Johnny Podcasts  22:29  
props. You could have mailed us props you clearly had time to make these.

Matt Cundill  22:33  
I thought you were just watching the time pass with the days of our lives. That's

Catherine O'Brien  22:38  
That is correct. I'm doing both of those things and but now I think I'm gonna sell because I'm actually I'm kind of tired of this decision. One of the most freeing things that I as a Podcast Producer realized is this is a niche product for a niche audience, that's there's a lot of freedom in realizing that podcasting is is sort of niche, and the the horse is out of the stable. What people, what the mass public, believes is a podcast might be different what than what the RSS feed is, people who are the QRSs or the the RSS truthers, they are correct and wrong at the same time, that's what I will say about that. And I think that we we just have to adapt to what the general public understands as a podcast. And I wish, yeah, I wish we were past this a little bit,

Johnny Podcasts  23:32  
rather than asking, what or it, what is a podcast? Or is this a podcast? If you're on the creator or the production side, change that question to two new questions. Who is this for? Is it good?

Matt Cundill  23:47  
Yeah,

Johnny Podcasts  23:48  
that's it. Then it doesn't matter. We want to put it on YouTube, fine. You want to put it on Apple, great. You want to put it on X great. You want to put it on Tiktok, awesome. Is it? Is it? Who is it for? And is it good? Then that is your launching point, and

Jon Gay  24:01  
then it goes on blue ski,

Johnny Podcasts  24:02  
then it goes on blue ski.

Matt Cundill  24:03  
I'm an RSS truther. I I love the RSS feed. I'm

Johnny Podcasts  24:09  
you don't have tears streaming down your face as all of us,

Jon Gay  24:12  
you've been doing this longer than any of us on this call, yeah, but

Matt Cundill  24:16  
I'm not, I'm not upset that, you know, all this other stuff exists, like YouTube and Spotify, I think it can be quite useful. I just don't think that we should be spending our time taking our content and uploading it to these walled gardens and thinking that it's gonna do us any good. I'm happier with it as an RSS feed than I am as a video on Spotify. I don't know that I need YouTube for anything else, other than the search, and I'm gonna live in RSS land for the next little while.

Jon Gay  24:52  
If I could, Piggy, if I could, you know, comment what you just said there, Matt, depends on what your goal is for your podcast. If you're selling your pod. Cast on download numbers. Yeah, you want the RSS feed. You want to be able to go to an advertisement, say, I have this many downloads, or if you're YouTube exclusive, this many views. For me, for example, my podcast, the JAG Show podcast, I'll plug my own show, since David isn't here to plug his, I is about creating awareness for my brand and my podcast production agency. So I post the video to Instagram, Tiktok, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and I post it natively in each app, not just the link, because the app algorithm likes it when you post native video. So I don't care how many views I get on Tiktok versus Instagram versus Facebook, I just care that I'm maximizing eyeballs and ear holes for my message, I'll

Matt Cundill  25:43  
buy that. Yeah, buy. Big buy there.

Catherine O'Brien  25:47  
Wow. We get to to buy comments out of this. This, this particular segment of the discussion. I like it a lot.

Matt Cundill  25:53  
We are all buying each other, but what each one of us is selling,

Jon Gay  25:58  
which I think is quite

Sarah Burke (Voiceover)  26:02  
nice the podcast. Super Friends support podcasting 2.0 so feel free to send us a boost if you're listening on a newer podcast app. Find the full list at new podcast apps.com

Matt Cundill  26:14  
yeah, there's a whole bunch here. I'm trying to figure out which one isn't going to annoy us if I, if I pull it up here.

Jon Gay  26:20  
Poke the bear, Matt, go ahead.

Matt Cundill  26:21  
I don't know. I'm trying to figure out which one, because this one is, I think we've already done this one, so I'm not going to touch it. I'll just put it up. And if anybody wants to grow and go ahead.

Unknown Speaker  26:31  
Yes, we've

Johnny Podcasts  26:32  
covered that a dozen times. Yeah, depending

Jon Gay  26:35  
on who you ask, YouTube, YouTube is for those listening. The the line is, YouTube is eating podcasting, depending on who you ask, number one for search, number one from consumption. So depends what you call podcasting. Yeah,

Matt Cundill  26:47  
so for discovery, I would agree. But I don't know about consumption necessarily.

Jon Gay  26:54  
Depends on which survey you read and which webinar you attend

Johnny Podcasts  26:57  
and who your audience is. If your audience is prime, if your audience wants to watch what you're doing, then, yeah, YouTube is eating, podcasting. If your audience is simply there consuming, they just care about the content. They don't matter where it is. Then, no, not necessarily,

Matt Cundill  27:10  
fine, fine, fine. We will get rid of this. Spotify wants to be like YouTube. Bye.

Johnny Podcasts  27:15  
They're pushing it so hard. I tweeted this out today, so Spotify does their wrapped for podcasters. You know how everyone got their Spotify wrapped for their music consumption for the year? They also do one if you have your podcast on Spotify, which if you're listening and you don't get it on there right now, turn this off and go put your podcast on Spotify. Please buy but at the very end, they offered. Here's four tips on how to grow in 2025 and I posted this without con, without my comment on it. I thought it was total bull. I thought it was just like, this is just for this is just high level, just crap advice, sorry, Spotify. The first one was upload a clip, share a short video, to promote episodes, to help fans discover your show on Spotify. So now Spotify wants you to put a short clip, not just a video version of your podcast, a short YouTube is delved really big into shorts because they want to be like Tiktok. Tiktok. Spotify wants to be like YouTube. Who wants to be like Tiktok? The second one give comments some love. So Spotify now has comments on their podcasting like YouTube as well, and Apple and Tiktok remind fans to comment on your episodes, to show them love by liking and replying. Now, even the hosts who you own your podcast, you can look at the comments and you can reply to those comments, just like on YouTube ask fans to follow you. That's separate. That's its own thing. Every app wants you to follow the creators on their own app. That doesn't necessarily count, but this is all just high level advice that we're talking about, share your show was the fourth one. This is all just high level stuff. But yes, Matt, they are really pushing the and I've talked about this a few months ago. From what I've heard from people inside Spotify, Spotify is really pushing the video side of it. I just don't get it. Spotify is for music. People have it for music and for podcasts. They're listening to it on their phone in their pocket while they're driving, while they're mowing the lawn, while they're vacuuming. It's not, I'm not like Matt does this great all the time. I'm just gonna steal your movement, Matt. I don't want to do this when I'm consuming my podcast. And for those of you listening, I'm holding up my phone to my to my eyes. It doesn't Yes. Bye. I

Matt Cundill  29:24  
checked my Spotify wrap today, and it's my number one app I that I use to listen to music when I'm drinking.

Jon Gay  29:32  
It tells you that are you just oh, these

Matt Cundill  29:33  
are all the songs I listen to when I when I'm drinking.

Jon Gay  29:38  
Give us one title. Oh,

Matt Cundill  29:40  
well, there was Jethro Tull aqualung. There was bad company. It looked like a bad classic rock station. I must have left it just running the

Johnny Podcasts  29:48  
Canadian National Anthem on repeat, classic rewind

Jon Gay  29:52  
with Matt gundle, yeah,

Matt Cundill  29:55  
I'm telling you, Spotify wrapped if you if you're listening to that when you're. Drinking that's pretty sad every November when nothing shows up.

Jon Gay  30:05  
Catherine, are you recovering? To chime in on this one?

Catherine O'Brien  30:09  
We know I think that not, not much deeper than we've already gone. I what I find, I'll take it a little high level here, the the apps trying to be like each other is disastrous. Yes, I think we've seen that with Instagram. To me, Instagram is virtually unusable now because trying so hard to become a Tiktok clone, I there is that is not innovative, to start copying your competition and people like the different apps for the different functions that they offer. So Spotify. I mean, I like that. Spotify has podcasts available it. You know, that's, that's great, but just to ah, that it's not YouTube. Don't, don't try to become YouTube, please.

Jon Gay  30:54  
I'm also buying this, the Spotify. Want to be like YouTube. I cannot underline and underscore what Katherine said. Just said, enough. It's and the other piece of it too, we talked a moment ago about RSS feed versus not, if you're counting RSS downloads for your show, Spotify has snuck this in to say, Hey, you don't have to host your show on Spotify to be able to put your show as a video up on Spotify. And people think, Oh, great, I can put the video on Spotify. Well, guess what? If you do that and someone consumes it. It doesn't count as a download for your RSS feed. So they're cannibalize themselves. I completely agree with Johnny said. It's a it's a music it's an audio consumption platform. Do not try to be all things to all people. Spotify is, you know, somebody inside Spotify told me they about six months ago, they have a more of an emphasis on music than podcast that might be changing, but stop trying to do everything. None of these apps are going to be able to do everything. And I feel like if I could grab these CEOs and shake them by the shoulders and say you're not going to be everything, do what you do well and continue to print money. Everybody's 12 bucks a month, just keep taking their money.

Matt Cundill  31:59  
So I'm gonna buy and I'm not gonna be upset at Spotify, because I think all the changes they've made are fine. They've done nothing bad to podcasters in doing this. They've given us an option to upload video. They haven't taken away our ability to put in the RSS feed. Our dynamic audio is still there. They've added comments, and that's a good thing, because I think that's why YouTube is so successful at podcast discovery, is that you can find it quickly. You can comment on it. There's, you know, interaction between the the host and the listener. So I don't think there's a I did get a little bit riled up when I started to put videos up, and then I lost the opportunity for for dynamic audio, but I still have the options, so Spotify has done good thing for podcasting. So I'm happy

Catherine O'Brien  32:55  
loving. One loving counterpoint to that is when, when these options start coming in, though we don't know what Spotify will reward. So for example, like, when, just to go back to YouTube as an example. So, you know, if you watch a YouTube video and they're like, hey, you know, like, I think, you know, I think X, Y and Z, what do you think? Put it, put it your comment down in the comment box. It's because YouTubers figured out that YouTube rewards when there are lots of comments. So when you start adding all these different little elements in there, we don't know what Spotify is going to be rewarding to the podcaster. So if you now, if you, if you get algorithm magic, because you're responding to comments now you're, it's like you're following what Spotify wants, not necessarily what you wanted to do for your show or for your audience or all those things. That's, yeah, that's, that's all I can think of.

Johnny Podcasts  33:53  
And one of the things too is we want to part of this too, is it's sometimes too hard to fight the machine. So great way, actually, every time it's too hard to fight the machine. So it's actually pretty easy for us, in this case with Spotify, to actually lean in and roll with the tide. So okay, you want us to upload video? Fine, start putting the video up on there. I'm not there yet, but in terms of working with hosts and if, for if there are hosts of podcasts listening to this, this is a really easy change for you. Okay, Spotify is promoting people commenting on our podcast. Great at the top of our show. Hey guys, thanks so much for tuning into the episode. By the way, make sure you're listening on Spotify, and if you have any feedback about the show, leave a comment there. I will be responding. That's where I'm checking if you want something in on the show, if you want something change, if you want your voice heard, leave a comment on Spotify. There's a link to it in the show notes. Boom. Now we're leaning into the machine, and we can ride the wave of what Spotify is promoting. So I like I change my tone of being negative to where I'm sort of indifferent. And I'm on Matt's side, where it's just Spotify, is gonna make these changes fine. What is the best way for us and for the people that we work with to maximize or to ride ride that wave?

Catherine O'Brien  35:10  
Yeah. And also, what do I know I'm not a billionaire owner of an app Jinx.

Matt Cundill  35:20  
So here's an RSS truther, possibly Ross Adams from a cast. RSS is the foundation, the backbone of our industry, and needs to be preserved to ensure the future of this podcast space. I sell. Buy.

So buy.

Jon Gay  35:39  
Hold, I want more information.

Matt Cundill  35:42  
Okay, well, why don't we change this? So let's pretend the RSS has gone away, back and so I just say he's saying that RSS is the backbone of the industry. Okay, so if the RSS feed goes away, what happens to the industry?

Johnny Podcasts  35:59  
Can I still look at how many downloads I have in my host

Jon Gay  36:03  
dashboard? No, that's the whole point here, right? That's

Johnny Podcasts  36:07  
the whole point. Okay, if there's no way to see downloads ever, then I'll buy Well,

Matt Cundill  36:12  
wait a second, Johnny, you see you got a bunch of Spotify views, but the way Spotify counts the views is going to be different than the way YouTube counts the views. But those are plays. Maybe those are listens over on Spotify. But anyways, good luck to you adding all that together and trying to make something of it.

Jon Gay  36:27  
This calls for a spreadsheet.

Johnny Podcasts  36:29  
Okay, every month for a few of my clients, I put together a Google sheet of total downloads, and I pull from the from the hosting dashboard and I pull from YouTube. That's two spots. Where else am I pulling stuff from without

Jon Gay  36:42  
RSS? You're pulling from Apple, you're pulling from Spotify. You might be I Heart Radio, you might be pulling from Odyssey and any of these other podcast apps. Okay, so

Johnny Podcasts  36:51  
if there, then I'll caveat. If there is no way to aggregate the word, if there's no thank you, if there's no way to aggregate all of these download numbers into one dashboard. Then, great, let's keep the RSS feed outside of that. That is extremely important. I'm not going to discount that at all. Outside of that. I could care less about it.

Matt Cundill  37:15  
I will just mention that the experience that I had with bumper where they opened up the dashboard to the sound off podcast, to be able to go in to see YouTube Spotify and Apple data all together. I had those all by myself, but I feel like it's a long trip to go through each one, but if I can see it all in one screen, I think being able to aggregate data is super, super important to be able to communicate with anyone, buyers or audiences

Catherine O'Brien  37:50  
in this apocalyptic scenario where there is no RSS feed, add nuts, I would say you still there are, if that, if that were To come to pass, there are still ways to judge the success of your show. That's engagement, that is responses that you're getting from people directly. If you give them a particular action to do, and they still do it, that is also a great way to tell the health and success of your podcast. So yes, it would not be great for those down those specific download numbers, but even we all have to admit, there are a couple larger players in all of those things. Not that I'm talking bad about Deezer or any of the other the other ways that people are getting podcasts, but there are a couple of big players that once you get that information, you get eight, let's say, let's use the 8020 rule. You'll get 80% of the information of your podcast. Am I wrong?

Matt Cundill  38:51  
You are not. Yeah, we'll move Sharon Taylor from from from Triton. She says, I'm excited to see subscription models and contextual targeting take off a bit more. I think. I mean, I wanted to shorten this down to make it a little more I can't like, I'm excited to see subscription models just, just go,

Jon Gay  39:14  
yeah. What could you explain? What the phrase contextual targeting,

Johnny Podcasts  39:17  
that's like, that's like advertising, right? Matt, so like, add dai that you get delivered to you are really personalized to you. Okay?

Matt Cundill  39:25  
Jag, yes, yeah, yeah. So

Catherine O'Brien  39:28  
my car dealership in Baton Rouge. But like, oh, I we see that you are into purple sweaters, makeup, yeah,

Jon Gay  39:35  
or even location based stuff. I'm listening to a Patriots podcast, but I'm here in Michigan, you know, and I get an ad for a Michigan furniture store. I'm like, okay, that's kind of cool, that that happened,

Johnny Podcasts  39:44  
yeah. Well, think about Instagram, and we always talk about how it seems like the phone is listening to you. It's that it's that good at what it's delivering you with your ads that is coming to podcasting, which I think Matt was going to allude to before I saw. Rudely cut them off. This. This is good for everybody. Like I said, you're leaning into it. If all, if, if our phones are picking up so much information about us, it's almost like an extension of our body at this point. It's almost like an appendage at this point. I would rather get ads that are targeted for something that I'm more likely to buy on the podcast that I'm listening to versus, hey, State Farm Home Insurance again. I don't care. I don't want it. I cast for mattresses again. I don't care. AG, one, I'm not drinking your weird green drink, sorry. Like, I'm ready for that. And as well as the the subscription models, I think as we move towards there being just so many podcasts out there, and the audience is becoming so niche, and everything is so saturated on social media, everyone's posting shorts, everyone's posting mid form, everyone's posting long form. Where can I, as the audience member, find my favorite podcaster with no ads and when it's only there every single week, the $5 Patreon? Great. I'm gonna throw him five bucks every single month. I don't have to worry about him reading or her reading any ads to me. And I know that I'm supporting that creator directly. And I move past all the sludge on my social medias of trying to find their stuff.

Jon Gay  41:14  
Let me hit by. Let me hit each one of the piece of these, I'm gonna say buy as well for both the contextual targeting, trust me, after my dog died last week, you want no part of my tailored social feed because of all the ads of everything I've gotten to honor my dead dog, trust me, you want no part of that any not to be sorry. Let's bring the covers the room down. Let me go back to subscription models. I have resisted this for a long time, because my mantra has always been, if you want somebody to pay for your content, it damn well better be worth paying for. And I think that bar is really high. But I think a lot more folks are seeing a lot more success with it. For some of the things Johnny just said, you know, it's it's ad free, it's compelling. You've really built that connection with your listener. I've always been of the mindset of paying for Netflix and Hulu and Paramount and peacock. Am I going to spend another five bucks on a couple different podcasters? I've always said no, but the data would contradict me. I think that if the content, the content is good enough, and it's reaching that bar, that it's actually starting to take off.

Matt Cundill  42:18  
Okay, so quick one right here, though, I'm going to throw this up. Subscription fatigue is real.

Johnny Podcasts  42:25  
Yeah, I buy that. I just signed up for rocket money just because. And this is not an ad for them, but it literally. You plug in all your bank accounts and your credit cards, and it shows you what you're paying for every month. Thankfully, I've been on top of my subscription craziness, so I wasn't shocked at all by what I was seeing on there. I wasn't paying for anything crazy. But if you think about if there's a podcast that you listen to every single day, every single week, without missing it once, try to think of the equivalent of that on a Netflix or an HBO Max. I can only think of one show I watched, the penguin. That's the only show I've watched this entire year that came out where I was like, wow, this is great. Me and the wife are gonna sit down and watch this every single week. Why would you pay 1599 a month for something that you never use? And you know, you can't think of anything off the top of your head that you would want to watch on there, or do you want to help support the creator and spend a third of that on your favorite podcast, and now you're getting it ad free, or you're getting an extra episode a week, or you're getting extra content, or you get to engage with the host directly. There is some benefit that you have to give if you're going to offer a paid thing. But yeah, I think it's such an easy thing to swap out. You just have to get your listeners to think about it and call it out in your episodes. It's a great

Jon Gay  43:38  
way to look at it. So

Matt Cundill  43:40  
I'm a buy with subscription. Fatigue is real, but I have more people coming to me than ever before, asking, how do we set up a Patreon for ad free? How do I get people to part with $5 a month? How do I get people to pay for my newsletter? So I mean, there's a disconnect there, right, yeah,

Johnny Podcasts  44:03  
between the creators knowing how to do it, between they still want, between

Matt Cundill  44:07  
the creators who want to do it, yeah, and the number of people willing to make purchases,

Johnny Podcasts  44:11  
yeah. I think you have to, I think it has to exist first, and prove show proof of concept, because $25 a month versus $0 a month, there's your answer, right there.

Jon Gay  44:29  
All right, Catherine, you're gonna jump in here before we

Catherine O'Brien  44:32  
move on to the next Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna, I'm gonna hold on this one, because I think that what Matt is poking at here is is absolutely true. I think there's a perception of subscription fatigue, and we might personally feel that this might be a case where we are not our customer, because you can look at all these podcasts that have, and I getting ahead of myself here, I would love, in maybe a year or two, to hear from like sub stack. Let's. Sub stack as an example, if there's a certain level of audience, let's say 10,000 people who are signed up for the free version of sub stack. How many? What percentage of those 10,000 are then also, you know, they are paying at a at the at any level. So, you know, because, like in marketing, you see like, Okay, if I send out a mass mailer, I can expect one to 2% of those mailers to bring back business. And we're like, you gotta be kidding, yeah, you know, like that. That seems so low. You know, you my radio guys here can confirm those kinds of numbers, but people will spend big money to send out those mailers? Well, I wonder what the same the same sort of percentage or threshold would be for those for those podcasts that are relying on the subscription model, because if you have an audience and the audience is passionate about what you're doing, and they see it as supporting the show or the product and and podcasts lean into the parasocial relationship. When we are really into a podcast, we really feel like we know them. We're supporting their work, whatever. Those are the kinds of things that are going to make people sign up at a at a manageable threshold, like $5 a month. But I would be interested to see what you know like if, if you have an audience of, you know, 5000 people, is that when you should start, you know, getting into the the subscription model, where you're you're doing those extra pieces of content, did I make it? I don't know if I made that very clear. There's got to be sense if you if I lot of it, I'm sure depends on audience size and and sort of engagement and responsiveness of your audience. And I would love to see a little bit more information about what, what is that threshold? What is that point?

Johnny Podcasts  46:50  
I think, in addition to is to audience sizes, to whether you should start one, and this is something I feel like I'm playing all the hits on here with something else that we've talked about when, when you're considering starting, you know, privatizing your podcast, to an extent, is, do you have that thing to offer? Do you have the time? Do you have the desire to do an extra episode, to take the time to cut your ads out, or, I guess you cut your ads out, or do audience Q and A do that extra work that it takes because you can't offer nothing and expect that nothing that people are getting for free, and expect them to pay for it. If they're already used to getting it for free, you can't entice them to pay for it. There has to be a thing that they're getting for it, yeah,

Catherine O'Brien  47:30  
something that you were going to respond to, right? Yeah.

Matt Cundill  47:34  
Last year, it was nothing, but a lot of AI talk. But here's a quote, the more AI generated hocum. That's out there. The more my work, my human insight, is going to stand above the noise, dusty weeks, pod camp media,

Jon Gay  47:50  
I'll buy that.

Johnny Podcasts  47:51  
What's the definition of hocum?

Jon Gay  47:53  
Yeah? Uh, dust. Dust. Dusty, by the way, is a great, great dude. I've met him at Podcast Movement. Um, yeah. The you can tell when AI has written Show Notes unless it's very well trained to your specific voice. You can tell Johnny and I were, and we were talking about this on our private call last week, a lot of these auto, automated AI speech enhancers, you can tell when that's it's been run through that you can tell when something is a little bit muddy. To the I mean, 98% of people probably can't, but to the trained ear, you can hear when something has been auto enhanced by AI. And I always say this, anytime you are doing anything with AI, you have to have a human check it and tweak it. You can't just trust the AI, or it's going to be hot garbage.

Johnny Podcasts  48:42  
I'm gonna hold I think, I think AI has a ton of benefits to help people that are making podcasts, whether you're a host and create, helping you generate content, or whether you're on the back end, on the production side, and helping you put together the podcast. I think the human element will always be needed, but I think it is going to if you're not using AI, if you're just discounting it completely, every every step of the process and creating a podcast becomes quicker when you implement AI. So you you can. I think I agree that the human insight and that dusty work, uh, will stand above the rest when you compare it to solely AI, but you have to implement some level of AI into your workflow in order to make this faster. And

Jon Gay  49:27  
I agree, AI should be a compliment, not something you're relying on. Yeah,

Johnny Podcasts  49:32  
right. I don't think, I don't think AI can ever create content on the creativity that a human can like if you look at those, I think Sora is one of them, one of those video creation ones. It just looks you can just tell there's just something off about it, I think. And I think Ben Affleck was on an interview, and he made a really good, really good point, and I'll try to condense what I remember him saying, but basically, AI cannot recreate human emotion the way that he. Admins can in terms of a creativity from writing a script or actually putting that script into reality, whether it's acting it out, or putting it into a podcast mic, I don't think it'll ever be able to do that without being sentient. And right now, AI is not sentient, not to put my tin foil hat on, but it's just from that standpoint. It won't, it cannot push the human being out of the picture.

Catherine O'Brien  50:26  
And I think this is an opportunity I often think about the questions and the territory and the the depth of a conversation to get into those things that AI can't replicate. One of the tricks is you have to know what those things are before you start bringing your interviewee, your guest to those places. Storytelling is probably something that everybody could brush up on a little bit to make their interviews more authentic and deeper. One of the things I've talked about with one of my clients, and I'm thinking of in particular is you have to, you have to know the questions that the person that maybe that they need a little coaxing to get into, if the stuff, there's stuff that's really interesting, you have to build to those areas. Ai. Can't do it the same way that a person who is engaged in a deeper conversation can do again yet. So we'll, we'll see where we go. But there's, I just, I am convinced there's things that AR are not going to be able to do. We were just

Jon Gay  51:29  
on Affleck. We were just talking a moment ago about the connection of podcasting, podcasting and that deep connection between people. This is the perfect example of that. Ai, at least, yet can't replicate that. Yeah,

Matt Cundill  51:39  
there's a beat part to all this, by the way, and that's by 2025. Experts predict that 20% of all podcast content could be aI generated, opening new possibilities for content creation and personalization. We're

Jon Gay  51:52  
talking January 1, 2025. December, 31 because we're getting coming up on that pretty quick. Matt,

Matt Cundill  51:57  
yeah, well, this one, this one was probably floating around like in the last from earlier this year, I'm

Jon Gay  52:03  
selling. I'm selling on this. There's, it's for every I don't think we need to belabor the points. Everything we just said is relevant to this. I think,

Matt Cundill  52:13  
yeah, okay,

Catherine O'Brien  52:14  
let me, yeah, we're selling. Can I there's an

Johnny Podcasts  52:18  
I would hold, but I'll Catherine, make your point. Okay,

Catherine O'Brien  52:21  
so as I'm selling, here's an example from, again, hearing from YouTube. This is a YouTube channel. It's a prominent True Crime channel. It probably has a couple million subscribers to it. Clearly, the original owners of these this channel have sold it to somebody else. So there was an 18 month gap between when the last video was posted and there was one literally yesterday was posted. They the new owners have gone to an AI voice. They trained the AI voice on the voice over actor that previously was doing it. Every single comment in the comments of YouTube, we're roasting them. How could you do this to us? If this is clearly AI, I saw on Twitter that the voice over actor confirms it's not him who's speaking. You know, you, you, you bought this great thing, our favorite, our favorite true crime show, and now you've turned it into an AI wreck, and it was incredible. So I there was, like, a little bit of my humanity, like I was like, oh, Faith restored that. You know, people don't want this just sanitized. They want the real person they they can tell still, they want the real, authentic thing. They want that, that script that somebody, a person has written they want the real thing.

Johnny Podcasts  53:46  
I had a whole hold argument, and Catherine just took a flamethrower to it. I'm so thank you.

Matt Cundill  53:56  
Local is podcasting this big opportunity. This from Adam curry, who said this on the new media show a few months ago, but still a prediction.

Jon Gay  54:05  
Johnny mentioned this earlier. Yeah, yeah,

Johnny Podcasts  54:07  
I would buy for all the reasons I stated earlier. And Matt, Matt had, you know, Matt has a great take on this that he talked about, I think, a couple episodes ago. It's, it's huge. I don't think any people don't seem to be tapping into and I think people should.

Matt Cundill  54:20  
So I'm abide this. I'm abide this because of the other prediction that I've made that we're not going to get to today, and that's, radio

Jon Gay  54:30  
is dead. Local radio is local,

Matt Cundill  54:31  
yeah, well, it feels that way. Local radio. I know you mentioned earlier jag about San Francisco and the tsunami warning, and I'm glad there were people at the radio station to be able to connect with people.

Jon Gay  54:43  
And there were, they were in a market of that size. Would that have been the case in a small market in California? I don't know. Yeah.

Matt Cundill  54:49  
Well, snowstorm up in northern Ontario last week, nobody at the radio station. All I see are people laid off. I've never had more phone calls from Radio. People asking about podcasting in the last two weeks from cumulus. I heart Rogers. Rogers now is so Rogers is so ahead of everything and in fashion, they are now letting people go from their podcast division. That's how that's how far ahead they are. Trendsetters, massive trendsetters. We're going to get rid of the people who do the big story Canada doesn't need something like the daily. They don't need that. We're gonna, they didn't actually get rid of it. They're just gonna have reporters, you know, sort of file it. But it's not gonna have the, it's not gonna be what it once was, is the thing. So anyways, yes, the opportunity is, it's a huge opportunity. One of the things I really think about is, there's a radio station, I think, down the street from me that's on AM, and I wouldn't buy it for $1 so it's actually out of business. Now they return the license to the government, but I wouldn't buy it for $1 it's just everything that I can do. I can do here. I can get on smart speakers, I can get into cars, I can pretty much do what a radio does, with the exception of be on the radio. But I'm not sure it necessarily matters, because most people are using the Android Auto when the car play, when they get into the vehicle,

Jon Gay  56:12  
a point on that actually, actually two points. Let me back up for a second. Great local podcast, the daily Detroit podcast, here in Detroit, Jeremiah stays a fantastic job, politics, social, everything going on in town, Monday through Friday. He's doing yeoman's work. He does a tremendous job with that podcast. To your point about the car. This was, this was the light bulb moment for me. It's having lunch with a friend last week, and he mentioned his soon to be 23 year old daughter. He got into her car with her. None of the presets in the car were set, zero. What do you what do you listen to? He said he and she's a big sports fan. He said, You want to listen to a Tigers game, you know? Oh, I'll just check. I'll just watch it on my phone when I get home or on the TV, you know. No music, no news, no sports, no traffic, nothing. It just plugs in Spotify on her phone when she gets in the car. And that's it. She had set none of the presets, 23 years old that that that was powerful to me.

Johnny Podcasts  57:05  
I've lived in Fort Worth for 10 years. I could not name you one local Fort Worth radio station. What they play? What's which, which? Which channels are the news ones? Which is the classic rock which is the hip hop station? No clue.

Catherine O'Brien  57:16  
Well, Johnny, there's one station they play all the hits, all the hits

Johnny Podcasts  57:21  
every Yeah, Spotify channel

Jon Gay  57:23  
and probably Kiss FM in Dallas. One, oh, 6.1 I'm not mistaken.

Matt Cundill  57:28  
I'll give an example, by the way, of some local podcast. City cast is in a number of cities across America, including Austin, Boise, Chicago, DC, Denver, Houston, Las Vegas, Madison, Nashville, Philly, Pittsburgh, Portland, and Salt Lake. So this is already well underway, and I've met a few people who who do these and these things are really well put together, and they're finding champions of the community to do some to do some great podcasting. So, so we're all buyers of that, right?

Johnny Podcasts  58:01  
I think we're all buyers. Yeah,

Catherine O'Brien  58:02  
yes, continue to buy.

Matt Cundill  58:05  
Well, here's one, one that we're gonna reject. So we don't need to talk about this. Do we

Johnny Podcasts  58:13  
for those that, not for those not watching? It says podcasting will break 2 billion in ad revenue.

Matt Cundill  58:18  
Yeah, so I put that one up there jokingly, because it's been predicted every year for the last five years, and it just hasn't happened. All right, hey guys, do you think if we wrap this up and I say that we're going to go counterclockwise, that Johnny will pick up and understand that he's going to be the first one to say goodbye here he might know.

Johnny Podcasts  58:39  
Thank you, everyone for tuning in. If you are watching, we respond to comments on Spotify, so please go comment there. I will look at them and respond and like them, and you can talk to me directly, but if you want to get in touch with any of us, we will hear our socials, and you'll probably see them in the show notes, but you can follow me on x at Johnny podcasts.

Jon Gay  59:00  
I'm John Gay from Jagan, Detroit podcast. Every social media platform you come up with, including blue ski, you can just find me at jag in Detroit. Isn't that more fun to say it is blue

Catherine O'Brien  59:10  
ski. I like it. Hey, the podcast, Super Friends, super fans. We'd love for you to sign up for our exclusive sub stack. Send us each money. Don't forget, Matt takes Canadian so just putting that out there, my name is Catherine O'Brien, and you can see me on Twitter. X Hello, Catherine o

Matt Cundill  59:31  
you can find me on Twitter at Matt Kendall. You can find me on blue sky at Matt cundill.com, yes, you can actually attach your domain name. Ask me how

Jon Gay  59:40  
Matt taught me that he's the expert on this and

Matt Cundill  59:43  
well, and I stole it from James Cridland, who said you really should be doing that. Whenever James Cridland says you should be doing that, I generally feel the need that I have.

Catherine O'Brien  59:51  
Yeah, do it. That's a body right there.

Matt Cundill  59:53  
Thank you.

Johnny Podcasts  59:58  
Wait, Dave's here. No, I

Jon Gay  1:00:00  
had, I have a rodecaster too. I did it in his honor.

Matt Cundill  1:00:02  
Goodbye, everybody.

Sarah Burke (Voiceover)  1:00:04  
Thanks for listening to the podcast. Super Friends for a transcript of the show, or to connect with the Super Friends. Go to the show notes of this episode, or go to sound off. Dot network you.