Stu Jefferies: Mornings Boom 97.3 Toronto

This is the podcast for broadcast. The Sound off Podcast with Matt Cundill.

Stu Jeffries is the morning host at Boom 97.3 in Toronto. The station is now consistently at the top of the the radio heap, but it wasn't always that way for the station or for Stu. You'll hear him a few times in this episode say that his end goal was to work in Toronto on the air during mornings. It took over 20 years for him to get there and another half dozen to ascend to the top in Canada's largest market. Many Gen-Xers across Canada might know Stu Jefferies from his time at Good Rockin' Tonight. The national CBC show that played videos had him hosting it from 1985 to 1993. And if that's all you know, we'll fill in the rest. Stu Jefferies joins me from his basement studio, which is behind a wall under the basement stairs. He's got a Rocaster Pro and a microphone. How are you?

I'm real well, thank you. How are you?

We've never met.

No, I see your tweets all the time. But no, we never met. And is it really funny when you finally come face to face with somebody that follows you or you follow them or whatever? It's kind of like, oh, wow, there's a real person behind in the tweets. That's kind of cool.

I've been in the room with you, though.

 Whereabouts? 

Canadian Music Week. I think last year, back in the day when we could get together and do things, you were hosting that mess of a panel about adding the songs where there's like 25 people on stage.

Yeah. What it takes to- what you're looking for, or what you're marketing, or whatever the hell that was. Yeah. That's a gig. Nobody wants those gigs. Nobody wants the gigs in front of their peers. Nobody wants to do that because, you know, they're all judging you. They're all saying "You did a great job" and, in fact, it was brutal.

But you managed to keep control of the situation and work in some humor.

Yeah. And a minimum. Right. Because as soon as you start thinking you're funny, you're toast.

Did you grow up in Winnipeg?

I did, yeah. I was born in Richmond, BC, just outside of Vancouver. I was raised in Winnipeg. My parents divorced when I was four. I think something. I got three or four. My mother's mother and father, my grandparents lived in Winnipeg, so she moved us all there. Have vague memories of taking the train. And then I stayed there for 17 or 18 years and then left in 79 to start my broadcasting career.

So where was high school?

High school was Vincent Massey and Viscount Alexander. I think Viscount Alexander now is a French immersion school or something like that. And Oakenwald Elementary.

Did you live?

Fortunately, yeah.

So did you live down in the Wildwood area?

No, the Wildwood area is for the rich kids. I was in Fort Gary, kind of the sort of falling apart area of Fort Gary. I don't get back to Winnipeg anywhere near as much as I want to. I love it there, and I love the people. I just love that city to pieces. When I do go back, I always go by the old 'hood and the house is still standing, and I'm looking at it going, You've got to be kidding me. That was ready to fall when I was leaving, and it's still there and still kind of holding its own. And what I love about the neighborhood is that it hasn't really changed. No new houses. Everything is kind of the same. It just kind of takes you right back.

And how did you find your way to Saskatchewan?

I took a broadcasting course in Winnipeg, at the National Institute of Broadcasting. And there was this little place on Furby. I remember when I first saw it, I had this impression that I was going to this massive high tech school, and it would look like there's an alley entrance, and it was really kind of seedy a couple of rooms. And I took the course, though, and then they helped you put a bunch of tapes together. It was unreal to real. And I had about a dozen mini tapes sent into every small market I could that was kind of in the area. I got rejection letters everywhere. Yorkton was the only one that hired me. And it was because I found out later Gary Lawrence, who I love, who is the program director there? He said, Look, I'll be honest with you. The reason why you're here is I just fired somebody and your tape was on my desk. So you're the next in line. Let's go. Yeah. That began in 79, June the 79th. So I'm in my 41st or 42nd year now.

I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that you grew up then around Winnipeg radio, which has an incredible I mean, what did it sound like back in the 70s? Because I hear stories of brother Jake Edwards and I hear stories from Terry Damonte and I'll hear them from Randy Renault, and I'll hear them about from Sharon Taylor and CKY. What was it like?

I'm so glad you asked that. I wasn't a CKY guy. I was a CFRW guy. And from what I remember, my friends were either in one camp or another. I mean, you're either listening to Percy in the Morning or it's Ron Abel or Dick Reeves at CFRW. And I was totally CFRW. I can't begin to describe how exciting it was, particularly if you're passionate about this job and you wanted to do it. To listen to those jobs. I listened to mention Dick Reeves. Lee Marshall was doing middays. He later went on to become the voice of CTV for years and years. Casey Fox or Jack Casey in Vancouver, Casey Fox was doing drive, Broadway, Bobby Day was doing evenings. So Steve Ferguson was doing overnights, and he had bed check going on. It was like everyone had their show and it was so unique to them. All the business was conducted over the intros of records. It's like Drake format in full effect, right? It's like you guys get to stop down, but not for long. You get to commercials and get your butts back out into music and you got 17 seconds over, blah, blah, blah. What are you going to do with it? And really the art form was, of course, hitting posts like crazy and being high energy. But it was just magical. Again, if you love the medium, it was magical to hear that and to be able to take that with me at the beginning of my career, as opposed to when A. M. Started dying off and it became sort of oldies and talk. That to me was like everything. And I have it with me today. It is still in me today, as powerful as ever.

What do you think it is about Winnipeg that had so much not only great radio people coming through here, but also great musicians. Neil Young, guess who? Bachmann Turner overdrive. What is it about the city that lent itself to all that in that era.

I think, for musicians. And I don't mean this to be I'm not trying to be funny. I think it's true. It's winter. It's so cold in Winnipeg in the winter, and it is I don't know if you saw that documentary by Winnipeg. I can't remember who did it now, and he's a big documentary filmmaker, and I forgot his name. Way to go. It paints this picture in the winter of Winnipeg, and everything is shutting down. There's so much time to spend indoors and jam right? There's so much time to get together. You're always getting together in somebody's house, in the basement, in the Rec room, and you're doing something, and if you've got a guitar, then you are jamming. And I think that and this thriving music scene. And I think the openness, too, of the time of radio to play new music from its own hometown. Winnipeg has this pride that I haven't sensed in other cities that I've been in. People are proud of the city they live in, but Winnipeg has got this thing. It's a vibe. It's a feel. You're from Winnipeg and you meet a fellow Winnipeg-er, and it's like the chest comes out a little bit. It's hard to describe. But for the musicians, I say the winter and the cold and just for the general feeling in the city in terms of what it turns out, I think it's pride. It's based on pride.

I think you were thinking of Guy Madden and My Winnipeg.

Yes. Thank you. Yeah.

I love that. I watched it when it came out, and I still go by 800 Ellis Avenue, which is, I think, where he set the thing, where he grew up at the time, and it's now a tailor. But I look at it all the time and a lot of it was about sleepwalking through winter.

Yes.

And I think there's also a lot of myths about that movie because I think some of the stuff was made up. Is it true that there are two taxi cabs companies in the city and one company got to drive down the laneways and the other one got to use the streets?

Yes, that's right.

Is it really true that all the female streets are named after the hookers who occupy the end of each street?

Yeah, that's right, I had forgotten about that. That, maybe not. But, boy, the picture that he paints of the alleyways right of the back lanes, and the footprints in the snow, and this sort of barrenness that it seems like it's midnight yet it's only seven in the evening. Everybody's gone, right? Oh, God, it was so enjoyable to watch. And the fact that he lived upstairs in the hair salon. Right? And he was constantly breathing in the smell of hairspray and all of that stuff, it's just great. I loved it. Yeah, you're right. I got halfway through it. I'm going, okay, this is kind of dark. And then he got alignmented up with those stories, which I really dig. And again, if you're from Winnipeg, tell me you weren't watching that and the chest wasn't coming out a little bit. It's your town, right? It's where you're from.

I walk through the streets of Barcelona and I'll see somebody with a Winnipeg Jets shirt on. And I'll go, hey.

That is it! In Bayview in Toronto, I'm walking down the street and no lie. This is prepandemic. I'm walking down the street and I'm walking my dog and I've got a Winnipeg Jets Tucson. And the guy comes out of this neat place called Cumbrae's, and he's with his wife or girlfriend. And he stops. He goes, Where are you from? I said, Fort Gary, you. And he says, St. Charles or something like that, or no, Charleswood. And then his wife said, what is it with you people? I'm like, sorry, man, it's in the blood. It's in the blood.

And I only found out just before today that you actually grew up in Winnipeg, but you did make it to Saskatchewan. And I always associated you with Saskatchewan for, I guess, the obvious reason we're going to talk about here. And that's because you, I guess, went from Yorkton and then you found your way to Regina, right?

Yeah. So Yorkton and 79 until 81. And then Regina. Oh, yeah. And come on. As a Winnipeg Blue Bomber fan, born and raised, that was the hardest thing of all was I don't think I really thought about it all that much in terms of sports. I got the job in Yorkshire, and I was so excited. And then I realized as I'm doing scores, I got to talk about the Rough Riders, and I got to sound like I like them, and this is going to be tougher than anything I ever imagined. And then in Regina, of course, that's the home of the team. And they smell a rat a mile away. And as soon as they smell Winnipeg on you, you've got no friends, man. But yeah, I spent six years at CJME, a year and a half at Cjgx, and then it was off to Vancouver from there.

The Good Rockin Tonight thing, though, what year did that start?

Was that? 82, 383 when Mulley was there, Terry did with Mulligan, he did it till 85, and so he did it for a year and a half, and then I did it for seven and a half and a half. So it went for ten seasons. And it came almost, I guess, in year six when I was at CJME. And it was just one of those really weird things that happened. I'll never forget this. I'm in the staff room at CJME and they got a bulletin board and there's all kinds of announcements. And CDC Virginia had put up an announcement saying they're looking for a host for a national show. If you're interested in auditioning, come on down. So I'm reading it. And Dave Mitchell, who was doing afternoons at CJME at the time, walked by and he said, Are you going to go? And I said, no. And then he said, Look, I'm going. And if I'm going, you got to go. Come on. So it was sort of like, okay, sure, fine. And we went there and it was an audition for the Fame Game, which was a battle of the bands that CBC hosted in all the capital cities across Canada. And they were looking for a host. And so I remember going into this audition sort of booth, and there was the production assistant there with a stopwatch camera microphone. And she said, Stare down the lens and talk for five minutes and don't stop. And it doesn't matter what you want to talk about. So I went, okay, sure. And I talked about radio, I guess, how I got into it, the job or whatever. And then I said, and I guess that's about it. And then she stopped the stopwatch. I'll never forget that. She went, wow, four minutes, 57 seconds. Well done. So I'm like, okay, great. And I didn't know anything about the show, but the producer of the show, Steve Glassman, who is Humble Howard Glassman's brother, loved it and told me the next day and he said, the job is yours. And I still, again didn't really know exactly what I was auditioning for. So there I was hosting a national show out of Vagina. It was going across Canada. And the producer of Good Rock. And tonight in Vancouver, Ken Gibson, had hung onto those shows. He liked what he saw in me and asked me if I would be interested in auditioning. When Terry David Mulligan said he was going out the door. So again, you're young, stupid. I've said this so many times, you don't really know. You're just all in. You're not getting anything a second thought. I have no TV experience except for the show I hosted. I can't whatever. And I went and auditioned and got the gig and then that sort of shifted the career gear like a 180. Now I'm going in this direction.

But you were PD and mid days and then you were doing the Good Rockin tonight as well. Were you flying back and forth for a while?

I was, yeah. And I'm glad you brought up the PD thing. I was never a program director. That's a Wikipedia mistake I keep trying to update. And somehow it went from Wikipedia to all sources that I was programmed director in Vagina. And I have no business being a programmer and it's an insult to program directors everywhere. Harry Decker was program director when I left. Jeff Steele was my PD when I worked there, and he was absolutely wonderful. These guys are so good. I'm sorry, Matt. I was still being concentrating on the correction. What did you ask me?

What was it like? Were you flying back and forth from Vancouver?

Yeah, I was. And I wanted to keep my radio gig and the pay at Good Rockin was great and it was like I was making money now and it's exciting and I'm flying back and forth and it's kind of a jetset life. And I'm young and it seemed really awesome till about week four or five. And I would leave Saturday morning, rehearse Saturday afternoon, record Sunday. Then I'd hop on a plane and go back again. And then it was back to Monday to Friday at CGM. And then I just couldn't do it anymore. It was just too tiring. So I moved out to Vancouver and tried to get into radio there and I couldn't. And looking back on it now, I realize I wasn't ready to be in Vancouver radio yet, but I still wanted to do that because the Good rocking tonight job is awesome. As it was, they were only giving us 13 week contracts, so you can't really hang your hat on that. And so I wanted to have radio to stand by and be able to go there in case the show falls apart. But they started liking what we were doing and started offering us a year contract. So things got better. And then I got a call from Edmonton at K 97 wondering to know if I would be interested in doing mornings there. And I was so itching to get back into radio. So I said yes. And now here I am again flying back and forth. I do mornings, K 97, Monday to Friday, Friday afternoon, go to the airport Saturday, Good Rock and Sunday switch back, get back on the plane and go do it all over again. So that lasted for about a year and a half before I finally went back to Vancouver and said, I'm good.

You just mentioned Switchback because you just switched back the TV show, which was out of Calgary. Right. But you got a different version of Switchback wherever you were in the country, or was that sort of a conglomeration of everybody?

Yeah, it was weird. Initially, I think each capital city had a Switchback live kids show, and they all did it differently. The show was really different formats in each one of the cities, and then cut backs came. So we did switch back out of Vancouver, and it covered Vancouver and Alberta, and then Winnipeg covered Saskatchewan or Saskatchewan covered whatever. So they all kind of sort of merged a little bit, and it lasted a few seasons. That show that was a live kid show, and that show was crazy fun, but exhausting. So I'm recording good Rocking on Saturday night, and then I'm doing this live 90 minutes. Oh, my God. Moving from start to finish and then getting on a plane and going back. It was just okay, I'm good.

You know, I really want to feel sorry for you with the plane thing, but one of these days we got to tell the full story of the fly Jock who went Chicago to Dallas every day.

Yes, of course. Everybody tells it, right? It's like romantic. It's got a good vibe to it. Right? It's like, are you kidding me? You're that good and you're jet setting. That must be awesome. Fact is, there's nothing else about it. After a while, you start resenting airports, resenting food, resenting everything. People want to talk to you and you're like, I know that I really should be friendly to this person that I don't know, but I really don't want to. I just want to go to bed. So, yeah, it's good for a while.

And then, yeah, I'm curious that the Vancouver radio station wouldn't want to hire somebody who's already got a known face and doing Good Rockin' Tonight.

Yeah. You know what? As I say, I wasn't very good. I should say Don Shafer in Vancouver gave me a break, and again, I wasn't ready for it. I guess what I was doing was still some pretty amateur stuff. And you don't know, in my mind, I'm sounding great. But when I think about some of the shows that I put together there, you've got to let it go. You've got to forgive yourself. And that I think too, there was probably a little resentment within not only that city, but pretty much everybody that auditioned for that good Rock and tonight job. Here's another thing. I had no idea there were tons of people that went out for that gig. Like tons. And I had no idea. So I think a lot of it was, who's this kid from Regina. Why are they hiring some kid from Regina? So I'm sure there was a lot of that. I don't know about enough resentment to say, no, we're not going to hire him. But I think enough of that to say, you've got a TV gig national. Boy, you work it out yourself.

Yeah. He's not one of us.

Yeah, exactly. And every radio guy in the world wanted at least one shot of television, want at least one shot at being on TV doing something. And this is something that I came to realize as the years went by. I guess that would be me, too. I mean, here I got a TV opportunity and it's national. Are you kidding me? But there is something about and it's why I still do it today. Radio, to me, is the ultimate connector, that show good rocking and switchback. I love the legacy of it. And I'm only finding out about it as the years go by. People say, Man, I set my VHS recorded to that. If I wasn't going to be home on Friday night, I was going to tape it. And then as soon as I got home, I would watch videos and interviews. And you were part of my life. And it was the only music we got where I lived. And you just feel like, oh, my God, because you're in it, you don't think about it. But then afterwards, when people tell you how important it was, you're like, wow. And radio does that to me still to this day, when people say, I heard what you said and I felt this and you're like, I don't even know you. And I made you feel that way to me. That's what's so magic about this.

And VTV after Good Rocking Tonight Goes Away, which was about 1993. I want to be careful how I phrase this here, but is this a time when you really do connect with radio at a different level?

Yeah. I launched sort of right into a talk format in Vancouver at LG. They had gone from hits to sort of I forget it was a poor plan. It sounded intriguing. They started to do modern talk. I was launched right into connecting with people on that level, like right away. And the one thing that I appreciated and didn't really know how much I missed was the camaraderie behind the scenes. But the live it's done, it's over and you got to move on. There's no. Okay, that was great. Let's do it again. Or I like that. But we can change this and this in radio, there is none of that. It's like you do it, you put it out there and it's done. And it made me appreciate prep that much more. And what goes into a show and into a proper show and how you've got to be ready for absolutely anything doing a music thing prior to that, like a midday show in Vagina or a morning show in Evanston. It was music intensive, high energy, lots of that stuff. But then you go into talk and it's a whole different ballgame. So, yeah, I mean, I appreciated radio for more than just a job at that time.

How did you find yourself getting to Hamilton?

What happened there is 97 Burlington. Initially, energy went away in Burlington, which is outside of Toronto, had an opening looking for a new morning show, and Cortis had just bought the station. I think that's what happened. And I was working for Cortis in Vancouver, and I went to my general manager, Chris Pandoff, at the time, and I said, Would you mind if I looked into this? And he goes, no, we're all one big happy family. And anybody that knows me and knows me to this day knows that's all I ever wanted to do. I wanted to be in Toronto. I wanted to be working there, and I wanted to do the morning show in Toronto. And then I wanted to be successful. That was the goal. It always has been, always will be. And he said, I know that. Go ahead. The general manager of the station is Dean Sinclair. And I thought, oh, my God, Dean Sinclair. I trained Dean Sinclair in Yorkton. He came just shortly after me, which is I love about radio, these weird things. So he was a Jock, and then he got into management and programming and stuff and was a very good programmer and then got into he was a general manager and he was general managing the station. So Dean and I are back together again. So I went, yeah, I'll take it. Let's go.

And then that led to a move from Burlington to the buildings in Hamilton. Once Y 95 and CHML were purchased by chorus, and then everybody moved into the building. So Hamilton there for a while. Why went away after a frequency change, and then an opportunity to do country came up, and it was in Toronto Studios, but the station is still based in Hamilton. And I thought Toronto Studios. I'm getting closer. I'm getting closer. And country, to me was country to me was it opened up another door. Country was like a club that was always out there that I wasn't invited to. And when I got in, it was, oh, my God, this is such a great place. Three years of doing that with Colleen Rush home, and then another three years at Easy Rock in Toronto, and then things really took a shift. And you talk about those moments in your career where you'll look back and go, okay, I didn't see that coming. I wasn't happy at the time, but I'm glad that I went through it because it's made me a little bit better. My contract wasn't renewed. And so there was a time that it was pretty quiet.

What about the 4A in the country? Because I think which came first, the radio or the country music television?

Oh, that came as sort of part of it. You know what? It's so funny, Matt. I keep forgetting about CMT. I was doing CMT work before country. I was doing it when I went out to space out of Calgary, and I was flying to Calgary every odd weekend to tape a whole bunch of shows, CMT Central or whatever it was called. And then I would go back to Vancouver when the opportunity came in Toronto to do a country station. Then it just melded perfectly, and they were moving the facilities to Toronto. We could do the show out of Toronto. So the show became more of a thing, more of it happening. So I do the morning show with Colleen, and then eventually Colleen would get on board on CMT Central as well, and we would do that show together. I still got to keep a little hand in TV, which was nice. But again, that whole country was just I talked about people smelling a rat when they know when you're a Winnipegor and you're trying to be a Saskatchewan fan. Boy, country folk, what I love about them, country fans, they smell fraud a mile away. If you don't know your country, they know it right off the bat. And I remember the first experience I had. So I'm dealing with rock and roll all my life, right? And rock artists are like, it's a crap shoot. Sometimes you get them in a good mood, sometimes you don't. Sometimes it's a great interview, and other times they're just not into it. And there's always this attitude with rock, with country. I remember I had an interview with Vince Gilbert and I phoned him or, no, he was supposed to phone me, and it just never happened. And I'm used to that. So it didn't really phase me. The next morning I came into work, I checked my voicemail and says, hey, Stu, buddy, it's Vince Gill. I am so sorry I missed that call. Here's my home phone number. Give me a call. I'm like, oh, my God, who does that?

And that was the opening to me to say, yeah, this is a different and when you interview them, it's like, what do you want for me? What can I give you? I'll give you anything. You want me to sing 18 songs? I'll sing 18 songs. Do you want me to talk about the most touchy subject in the world? I'm here for you. Like, they are your friends, and they know that community is the most important, certainly the music. But community is the most important facet of that format and learn so much, and it just fit my lifestyle. It just fit right where I was at in my life.

Any other interviews that you've had along the way that you're like, "I'll never forget that one. It was memorable for the wrong reasons."?

Yeah, well, the good ones. Paul McCartney face to face with him in Montreal on the Flowers in the Dirt tour. I still have a picture with him. I think I must post it at least three times a month just for the hell of it, because it's Paul Mark Knossler from Dire Straits. Two people that when I was interviewed, after I got the good rocking job, vagina CBC did a piece on me and I was asked what would be the artist that would make you the most nervous? And I mentioned those too. So to be able to get to talk to them, it went great. Others not so good. We did a tour of the UK and we were doing some boy, I don't know, it was like 15 interviews a day. At one point. It was crazy. So you're in the elevator at one building and you're reading the bio of the group on the way up to the interview and you're trying to get your crap together because there's no time to prepare. And then it's another interview. I talked to Mark Hollis from Talk, who was one of the most uncooperative people I have ever met. And he was feisty right from the beginning. Now he's dead. I don't want to speak yellow the dead. But Mark was just so tough. And I forget what question I asked him. He goes, Why don't you ask me what I had for lunch? That's just about his intelligence. Oh, my God, why are you like this for me? What the what? And his face is turning red and he's clearly getting angry. And I'm like, what is going on? But, you know, for the most part, my lesson in interviews that I learned was that one are funny and one not so funny that they're not your friends. And you don't go out to make friends when you're doing that. It's not because you're going to blast them in the future and you don't want to seem hypocritical. It's just that you think you make a connection and maybe you do at the time, but these guys are rock stars and they talk to a million people a day. And if they see you again and manage to remember your name, you're great. And if you start thinking them as friends, the interview goes down a different road. And then before you know it, you're not even really doing your job. You're just trying to have this inside sort of club with this friend. Hey, everybody, look, I'm friends with so and so. Isn't this great? So there was that. And then there was making a connection. I did an interview with Brian May from Queen, and it was in Los Angeles. And we were flown out much music and CBC was flown out to do this in honor of Queen signing with Hollywood Records. And the guy that ran Disney, that was his label. So they were having this big event on the Queen Mary. But first, Brian was doing interviews and Freddie. Nobody knew that Freddie was sick. He had not come out on the trip. So Brian and I are talking during this interview, and it is going wonderfully. It's just he's so forthcoming, and he seemed to be really enjoying himself. And at the end of the interview, he said, that was really good. I really enjoyed that. It was so nice meeting you. And he said, I look forward to seeing you there again tonight. And I went, wow, fine. It's like I connected with Brian May. So came to the event that night. Queen is announced. They come walking out and they've got this velvet rope in between them and me. And I see Brian walking towards me and I catch his eye and I hold up my hand to say, hey, Brian, it's me. He hands me his empty drink and says, I'll have a vodka and Orange juice, please.

You could hear the air come out of my heart and soul. The publicist is just looking at me with a shrug, like, I don't know. Sorry. So, yeah, you think you make a connection? You don't make a connection.

Did you get the vodka Orange juice?

I did not. But I remember Tony Wanamaker, who was the cameraman from Much Music, said, that's a tough one.

Where's the film of that?

Yeah. Nobody. No cameras. I would kill to have it. And you know what I always say? You got to have a story. And that's one of my favorite stories. I'm just being crushed like a bug. But that was so good. I wish that I could see him now and relive those moments, but it's one of those things best left out in the universe. It's still one of my favorite times.

When we come back, Stew and Colleen Land at Easy Rock where there's a load of uncertainty that comes into play stations being sold. Things are in flex part of the pun, but the whole thing is about to go boom. Also, I posted some additional footage and media about a few things that we've spoken about so far. Things like Guy Madden's, my Winnipeg, and the story of Tom Joyner, the fly Jock who did morning drive in Dallas and afternoons in Chicago five days a week. You can find it all@soundoffpodcast.com.

When I was at EZROCK with Colleen, we had three years to try and get that morning show going. And I love working with Call and I thought we had a good show. And I don't say that with any sense of bitterness at all. We did have a good show, but we were up against some Heritage morning shows in the market and people listen to who they get used to. And we're up against CHFI, who's had a morning show that's got a reputation that's lasted for years, and Roger Rick and Marilyn at Chum. So our backs were against the wall to begin with. So we're kind of middle of the pack and we're struggling and my contract is up and the station gets sold from standards sold it to Astral. So perfect Storm, right where they get. Okay, the morning show is not doing that great. His contract is up. We don't have why don't we just try something totally different? So I was out, Colleen stayed, and they put together a five person morning show, and they were still Easy Rock at the time. And then they were sold to Bell. Before the sale to Bell, they became Boom, which I think now they're in their twelve year, ten to twelve year, something like that. And I was still on the outside looking in, and I was doing voiceover work, trying to keep busy, trying to keep money coming in, but it wasn't all that great. I was asked to host an 80 show with Kim Clark Champion. So I did that. That was good. But still I just wanted to get back into mornings. The program director at Easy Rock Boom was Chris Ebot from La. Chris had no great guy but had no previous knowledge of any work that I had done. You could tell that he was looking to make a change in that show, but it wasn't going to be me. And for whatever reason, I ended up getting an evening shift, covering for evenings there. And then I'm starting all over again. So it was hard because it was just really at my age, I got to get back down there and get started working up to where I want to be again. And I got so close and it was gone. And now here I go. I did evenings for a while and made changes in the morning show. And Kristen, why don't you go into Mornings now? We don't want to do a traditional morning show. So I heard. Of course, yes. They're probably looking for somebody else. I'll be there to keep the seat warm. And then as it turned out, things started getting better. We started just as a single person morning show started getting some traction. So they let it go for a while. It's just steady. Nothing great, but just steady. It was always moving up. It was never going down or spiking. And then it kept going up and up and up. And now features start to get added into the show, and suddenly it becomes my show. And then to go from number eight to number one in about I guess what, five, six years maybe is a great jump. And here I am now again, as I said, I look back on those moments and it was really sad. It was really hard to get motivated. And then I'm so glad that I did. And it's a lesson for anybody. It doesn't matter how passionate you are about these things happen, right? Like things we hit our wagons to horses that we don't know just so that we can do what we do. And sometimes the horse takes a different direction and you're on the outs. And after you put a whole lot of work into it, you find yourself on the outs and you're like, oh, man. But you love it so much that you don't want to go and you feel like you have something to offer. And I always felt that I was not done yet. And I still say that to this day I'm not finished, and I love it too much.

Well, I have a couple of takeaways just from that whole thing. And one of them is you and Ez Rock. There's Stu Jefferies and he's on Ez Rock. But today I hear Stu Jefferies on Boom with the music that I've always associated with what I've seen on TV or heard from you in the past. It just makes it a little bit more sense.

Yes.

And the other takeaway is it takes three years to build an audience. No matter if you're in radio, you're starting from scratch or you're starting a podcast or you're starting even a business. It takes three years. And after year three, that's when if you're doing things right, this is where you catch and you talk about where the horses will take you after that.

Exactly. And you know what? Three years even longer. There are people that still think Boom is easy rock listeners. I mean, so it's like it takes so long to get that impression out there. And yeah, you're so right. And yet you hear all the time when somebody hires a new morning show, they'll say, hey, listen, this is a marathon. It's not a sprint. We're going to be behind you. We're there. But, you know, technically, you got three years to show us something. And then look, you're starting all over again, right? And here we go again, starting from the middle of the pack or the bottom. And that's what I loved about Boom and the people. Plus, we were at one point we weren't owned by anybody before Newcast picked us up. Bell did not take us into their fold when they bought from Astral. So we're just floating out in the breweries. And I think that was key for all of us there. We became like, oh, yeah, okay, you don't want us then you know what? Look out. And it was a very unspoken all for one and one for all attitude that I remember in Regina where everybody was just all about it. You talk radio, you lived radio, you met all the time. You went to people's houses, you're talking radio. And it's like, oh, my God, this is like back in 1981 again. And the music, of course, supplies the soundtrack to that. And because of that, we said, here we are and take notice. And now again, I'm not sure how old the station is. I want to say twelve years. It might be eleven or whatever, but we're a powerhouse. And it's all because of that. I think it's all because of that attitude of you don't want us, we're going to make you want us.

And that worked out well for us now is an opportunity to talk about some of the great radio people you get to work with, say like Steve Jones and Steve Parsons and Troy McCallum.

These guys are passionate, beyond passionate, and they are smart. Steve Parsons and I worked together at country. He was my program director of country. And I love Steve from the get go because Steve questions everything. Like absolutely everything in a country. We were like a one one, maybe a one two share. We could not get any ground. We were the only country station within whatever. Oshawa was the next closest, I think, and we could not get numbers. And we'd have a ratings party because this is our first book and it's really a lousy book. And every book after that was never very good. And he would always try and spin it to make everybody keep the attitude up. But we would have conversations all the time going, I hate this. And I hate this, too. I can't wait another six months to find out how we're going to do this. Sucks. We've got a good station, we've got a blah, blah, blah. And Steve would continue to question everything that we did and how can we make it better. And he does it to this day. He is you'll walk in with an idea, Troy could walk into his office. Troy's got ideas. Like Troy goes to the washroom, comes out of the washroom with twelve ideas. Then he'll go into Steve and he'll say, I got this, I got this, I got this, I got this. Steve will be fouling off. Hitting them off, hitting them off. Say, what about this question? This question that so nothing ever goes to the air without it being thoroughly beaten up. And Troy can tell you, man, he could write a book with his ideas and maybe three or four of them got through, but he's always there and he's always trying to think of stuff and that's passion. And Steve Jones watching the two Steve's together in the future, when Radio is done, I'll sell tickets to just those two guys, duking it out, those two guys on a panel. And only those two guys would be must see radio conference stuff because the way they go at each other and in the best way possible, exchanging ideas, chirping, it's a thing of beauty and what I love, it's just they all know their shit. They all know it. And you feel confident working for people like that.

I guess I better have Steve Parsons on this podcast now.

That's right. It'd be worth it. You'd love it. Yeah.

I've had Troy on and I've had Steve Jones on. I guess I better have him on.

You got to have Parsons, man, and just be prepared to be hit the line. You'll be fouling off everything you throw at them.

You guys did the top 100 Canadian songs of all the time. Really? I think it feels like it's almost lost that specialty programming would even happen anymore. I just don't hear it. But so glad that you did it. Can you think back? Did you get close enough with the 100 songs to look at it and say they forgot one on the list?

Oh, yeah, we could go forever on that one. A combination of listener votes and just what makes sense, plus the stories to go that we're told by Randy and Burton, you compiled the best list you can. But you know what? As I said to anybody that said, I can't even think of names now. But what about so and so? What about so and so? What about so and so? And I would always respond with, well, it's a really good problem to have you look at the top 100 songs. And would you argue with any of them? No, you wouldn't. Would you say there's some missing? Absolutely. But that's a great problem to have. And how could you rank them? How could you put Summer 69 ahead of taking care of business? Because they're all really good. These are all really good songs. So it was more of a celebration than a top 100.

It was a story. So that really built the special.

Yeah. And those guys, Randy and Burton, can tell. And there's another thing, and I know it's not exclusive to Winnipeg storytelling, but there's something about musicians from that city that they spent a good yarn. And boy, those guys, Incidentally, an exchange with a friend of mine, a long time friend. We're talking about the guests who and why they're not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Can't figure it out. I looked up their track record is incredible, but apparently it has something to do with lack of success in the UK that is keeping them out of the Rock Hall. And it doesn't make any sense to me for what they've done. And their music has been worldwide, world renowned. But I don't know, for some reason, maybe they've been shunned in the UK, but why should that make a difference? It's one particular area, and those guys are so good and meant so much. And Trailblaze, they got charged numbers in America before can come before any of those rules. They were getting on the radio because their songs were good. They weren't government assisted. They were like good songs.

Well, it took a long time for Rush to get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and it took a lot of phone calls from Donna Halper.

Yeah. And it doesn't seem right to me. And I remember John Bon Jovi in an interview once saying it's really who's in favor at the moment. And he said, the Rock Hall has got my report cards. They've got my first demo, they've got a cassette that I did blah, blah, blah, all on display. And yet forget it. I guess it would be nice. But he said it's almost so ridiculous and open to so much argument that he said, I don't know if I'd ever want to be a part of it. And Steve Miller, remember Steve Miller got in.

Steve was like, first of all, they're not going to fly me out with a guest. And they're basically making the rules and the people that are inducting. And he said, I've never met them before. I know they're fans of mine, and that's great. But what is going on? And he said, And I can't get an extra ticket for a family member. Like, this is stupid. And then Chicago. Chicago was together, but Peter Cetera is arguing with the rest of the band, so they're not going to perform for us. And I'm like, this is pointless. It's like, absolutely pointless. But I think to guess who, I don't know. They just rep this country so well. And, yeah, my Winnipeg chest is sticking out again, too, but I think they belong in there.

That's okay. I'm looking at the top 100 list. And of course, as a born Quebecer, I have to complain about the lack of Quebec representation on there. And Men Without Hats. That's far too low for Safety Dance.

Yeah, like I say, man. Well, you know what? You mess with those rankings and you show me your list and you'll get no argument. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. You want to take out and put in? By all means, knock yourself out.

Safety Dance at 65. And I would look at that sort of list and just say, oh, it seems to cut off at the Ottawa River.

Hey, listen, isn't Pop Goes The World in there? Don't we have some rock cuisine in there? Come on, come on. Pagliero is in there.

I don't think he is, isn't he? No.

Well, he should be. I'll do something.

No Pag, and Gino Vanelli is missing.

There's no Gino? Not even Black Cars?

Just checking here. No, there's a Black Velvet.

Okay. All right, we're close. All right.

But you could do 150 and still come up with these arguments right now.

There were actually two lists too matter as well, right? There was one list for the classic rock stations and then one list for the sort of pop rock stations, just so they make sure that everything kind of blended together.

Well, there. That just covers everything now, doesn't it?

Really? It's a top 200. And your argument sucks.

Can you review the Roadcaster Pro for me?

Yeah. And this comes from. I'm not a tech guy, so this will be super basic. What I like. I'm an Apple guy. I've been kneeling at the Church of Apple since the LC two, and I do it because it works. And the set up is easy, and it just works with the roadcast. When I have to do my shows from home, it had to be not only simple, but effective. And I did all the hookups myself. I do love that. That's a labor of love is hooking things up. I love doing it, but as far as the text and the specs, I'm lousy. But as soon as I've hit the power button on that thing, it was like my best friend and I knew everything. There were no mistakes, at least at my end in terms of what pots going up, what controls what my kids were. Of course, we're all in quarantine. One of them, Leo, would wake up in the morning while I'm doing my show from the living room and come downstairs, and I thought, let's get him on. I ran downstairs, grabbed a mic, hook it up. No problem. It reads, it adapts, and I even hooked up my smartphone to my iPhone to the thing with simple Oxford. And so any interviews that I could do on here or anything that's on my iPhone just run right through their flawlessly. I love it. And it makes me want to podcast, although I'm too lazy. But, I mean, I like the simplicity of it and how I could have you over as my guest tomorrow and there'd be no okay, let me just work with this or fidget with this. It's just like it's so good.

What was it like doing a show during the pandemic from home?

Really? Yeah, really weird. The hardest part for me was feeling like nobody was listening. And I don't know how the studio would have improved that being in the studio, but you just look out at the city and even though you don't see any cars on the road, you feel like the city is with you. For me, I'm looking out the front window of my neighborhood and seeing people jog by or walk their dogs and stuff. We're right in it now. Right now, we're knee deep in pandemic talk, and every single day it's case count and testing and how many deaths. And my wife was quite sick, and we're convinced that she had it got tested afterwards and found out that she didn't, which was great, but she was so sick. And so it was stressful as well. And then to wake up, do all the prep that I usually do, and then just take three steps and I'm in the studio. And as I told you, it was my goal my entire life to do a morning show in Toronto. And if you had told me that, yeah, you'll get that. But you'll also be doing it from your living room. I'd be like, wow, so weird. And yet we did very well. But it just felt I don't know, it felt like I was lost and it felt, too like people have said this before, that we're in a movie and it felt like at any minute somebody would say and seen, and then that would be it. And if you go over, we could all get back to normal and everything is so not normal. And yeah, we're adapting to it now, but, boy, when every single day was another story and another pandemic or breakout, another outbreak. It was just so hard to do. Right. So the novelty of being in the living room was okay, I guess. But what you had to deal with wasn't so it was tough.

I know Troy was on the sound off show, which is something that I do on YouTube and he and I talked about the station taking a break from all the COVID talk.

Right.

Do you still have those discussions going back and forth about how much COVID talk is too much talk for the show?

Yeah, we did. At first there was just no way around it and you couldn't be. So what we did was say, well be coveted free Friday for 2 hours to give you an idea of just how welcome that was. We were joking around the very first Covet Free Friday we ran. We had splitters that were saying welcome to Bleep free Friday. And then every time somebody would say Covid or I would try and say Covid, I bleep myself. It was all very let's just have some fun. But people texted immediately and called immediately and said, I thought you said you're COVID free. We don't even want to hear Covid beeped out, like, Covid nothing. Don't want to hear anything. And they were quite passionate about it. So we learned going forward that you guys need it so awesome. And we did say four Fridays after that, we just did not mention it at all. Even beeped out and we got amazing feedback from it.

People said yeah, we're good. But now you have to acknowledge it. We're making progress. So you have to acknowledge that progress for us. We're obviously not a news station, but we try and feel the vibe of the city and the vibe of the province in terms of where we're going with this and you can't ignore it, but by the same token, you can't present it in a way that is okay, that's that. Let's move on. I still do. I mean on the fast five every morning it will be in one of the stories, but it's basically just count. And I always concentrate on the cases that are resolved to try and get that upside. And how close are we to stage three and what's it going to take and sort of give things to look forward to as opposed to the depressing news.

It's pretty amazing to think that at the beginning of this podcast we were talking about you flying back and forth across the country to gigs and today we just give you a Roadcaster microphone in the internet and now you can't fly anywhere.

Isn't that crazy? And you know, we've gone from the Flintstones to the Jetsons in like it's like every year something happens where it's like we're better or we are more connected and everything is so simple. Like we're going to look at that Roadcaster and we're going to go years from now. Go, Jeez, that thing. You still use that? And I love it. Technology is as scary as it can be. It's so awesome. You and I get to do this, and it's like all you have to do is plug in. It's pretty good.

I saw Stacey Thompson from your station. She had one. And I guess Stingray had bought you all these devices at one point to work from home. But I think Stacey was recording and voice tracking using it, and I thought it was amazing that something that was really created for podcasters wound up being a great radio tool as well. Because sometimes I go to the broadcast conventions and some of the prices are these things are not even on the same planet for podcasters.

Exactly. Yeah.

There is a podcaster budget out there, and it's about 1/10th of everything else. That's radio.

That's right. That's right. I just bought a ton. And this will be a time to where I'll look back and go, this was a really cool and crazy time because it's not amazing. It's like doling those things out and everybody still all the announcers boom, have it set up in their home. They're like ready to go if COVID somehow gets into the studio or whatever. And we got to shut it down. No problem. We'll still be there. I would highly recommend I Bet There'll Be a Ton for sale when all this settles down. I can keep my eyes open for one for you if you want to make sure I grab you one.

Well, you know what? You can't get most of the things to start a podcast now. Some of the basic microphones and Roadcasters are all back ordered.

Right. So people are taking advantage of this time, right. To really settle in and do what they I always sort of feel about podcasting, too, which I love is now more than ever, you need to hear voices from everybody, and you need to hear people talking about maybe they're talking about covet or maybe they're talking about golf. I never used to listen to them in any fashion, and not because I was against them or anything. I just never even thought of it. And now I look at a catalog of shows that I want to listen to just because it's like I need to hear people and I need to hear opinions and I need to hear honesty. And that's what I love about podcast, man. That's straight up honest. Straight up honest. You're not talking to polished radio dudes or music producers that know their shit. You're listening to real people talk, and I love that.

Well, we're approaching 1.3 million podcasts out there right now, so happy listening.

Yeah, it's quite the catalog.

Who's going to listen to all this?

Well, then there are some where you go. Okay, nice try. I get what you're trying to do there. That's cool. That's cool. Good for you. I suppose I won't be subscribing. I may have heard your first and last one, but that's all right. My eldest son, Ben, is 18 and he's got a few friends and two of them, they get together every Friday, do their podcast while watching a movie together. They're all passionate about movies. And I asked them who's listening, he goes, "Oh, it's just us." But that's all right, man. What you want to do? Put it online and see what happens.

That's like Mystery Science Theater from Comedy. Did you watch that show?

I don't know if this line means anything to you, but every time I think of Mystery Science Theater, I think of a woman on the screen. She's asked, what's your name? She says, Shelley. And the two guys look at each other and say, rub my belly. Stupidest thing ever. And I just happened to tune it on at that time. And every time, like right now. I still think about it and laugh my ass off. Those guys are so good. Rub my belly?

Oh, yeah. And to think, by the way, I used to go and get a friend with a satellite dish, halfway across Nova Scotia, who would record hours and hours of it. I would drive 3 hours one way, 3 hours back, take it back to University. And we would sit, just smoke hash and watch this thing. 

So good. Oh, God, so good. And again, here we are today, right? No problem. Just go online, knock yourself out. You can watch them from the comfort of your own home.

Why wouldn't you BitTorrent that thing? I know. We're so old and we're laughing.

I know. Yes, it's good, though. I don't mind. It's like when somebody calls you Whenever somebody says, hey, here's the legendary blah, blah blah. It's just basically another way of saying he's really old, dude. He's still doing it. Good for him. He's a legend dead of voice.

Well, I'm sorry you didn't get to see a Canadian music week this year. Of course, that's canceled along with a whole bunch of other things, But I'm glad we got together for this podcast and thank you so much for doing it.

Yeah, me too, man. It's a pleasure talking with you. Pleasure meeting you. And this has been a lot of fun. Anytime. 

Thanks for listening to the Sound Off Podcast. Find us online at Soundoffpodcast.com, and connect with us wherever great social media is housed. The show is imaged using the sounds from Core Image Studios. Written and hosted by Matt Cundill. A production of The Soundoff Media Company.